Triangulating on a replacement system

[Doyce]

Calling on the Power of the Forge.

Okay, posting a question to everyone.  The situation: a friend of mine is running a (reasonably fun) Spycraft game using d20 in his own setting, but he's getting a bit sick of the system-bloat and is looking for a system to transition to.  Here's an excerpt of some of the things he's looked at, which also illustrate (I think) his priorities.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is suggest systems to check out.[/spy]

So, system-wise ...

I like the "cliche" mechanics of RISUS, but the action too easily devolves into number-vs-number stuff without the system providing some foundation of description.  Sorcerer is kind of like that*, though for Sorcerer, the roll derives from the action you describe, while in RISUS is sort of feels the other way around.  The granularity is too crude in RISUS (and the tone too cutesy).

* - Note that I never actually suggested Sorcerer to him as a possibility -- it's the wrong kind of game for questions of Humanity.

I like some of the flexibility of Wu-Shu, but it really feels like it's much more oriented toward the outrageously cinematic -- by design -- with little to support anything calmer or quieter.  The volume can't be cranked to 11 all the time.  I don't think that's the answer.

I looked again at FUDGE, but the disconnect between Abilities and Skills still irks me.

What more can you say to summarize Fudge, really?  I suggested he take a peek at FATE, which I've heard good things about as a sort of crunchy matured Fudge, but I've not read it, so I can't even say if that's a good suggestion.

I feel like I want a system that's a bit more... I guess it's 'simulationist' than these, without becoming bogged down in the details.  I want the potential for cinematics without everything having to be that way.  And I like the idea of unique (player-generated)descriptors/archetypes/cliches, but don't want folks to feel that everything about them can be summed up in two or three words.

...and there you have it.  The goal.  The only thing I would add is that he's working alot on capturing the type of spy stuff where you get the breifing, make the plan, get the toys, then spend a good portion of the scenario keeping the plan on track in the face of complications -- very TV's Mission Impossible.

I've thought about checking out Savage Worlds after seeing the thread on the fantastic-sounding X-Com game being run with it, but I haven't done so yet.  Would that work?  What would?

[Valamir]

Savage Worlds might be ok.

But what about scrounging up a copy of the old James Bond RPG?  They go on ebay pretty regularly.

[Matt Machell]

Hmm bit of a plug here but: if you stripped the supernatural elements from The Agency, it might work. Depends how freewheeling your groups wants things...

-Matt

[Andrew Norris]

I think that FATE would give him almost everything mentioned in those quotes up above. There's several dials for complexity of combat and task resolution, gives you a limited metagame resource for occasional cinematic over-the-top moments, and depending on how you define Aspects and Skills it seems pretty easy to play it as Sim exploring character, setting, or color. (And the source material, TV spy shows, have a lot of this going on, where they drift within an episode between nitty-gritty espionage action and colorful personalities clashing.)

I feel a little uncomfortable jumping in with "Try System X", because we'd probably want to know more about the particulars of the game being run, but  I went through a similar search for a new rule set last month, and FATE is working for us.

[DannyK]

It's not an Indie RPG, but Adventure! is a nifty system for what you're describing.  It's got some crunch, some powers that could easily be toned down for a more realistic game, and a system for metagame dramatic editing (actually, the same resource fuels both powers and dramatic editing).

[contracycle]

Conspiracy X?

My god, an actual invitation; I recommend this system a lot in much less appropriate circumstances.

This is a fairly orthodox skill/ability system, so no player definition of abilities or fuzzy action resolution I'm afraid.  OTOH its IMO very elegant and well usable for sim.  This game doesn't do cinematic exactly; rather, it allows for, umm, decisive actions.  That is, if you set up a sniper hit there might not be much need for rolling to hit or damage if the sniper is anything like competent.  Its a karma-driven system with little whiff factor.

Tasks and attributes are rated 1 to 5 and compared - certain degrees of comparison make the task automatic, close or equal levels call for a roll.  This makes it fast in action as many tasks can be answered 'succeed' or 'fail' and everyone can worry about the indeterminate and risky ones instead.  I found this excellent for the espionage context in which the characters usually possess a high degree of professional competence.

The game is a modern conspiracy genre X-filesy thing oriented around an organisationg with a cell/base structure.  Characters are members of organisations (CIA, FDI, CDC etc) and get Influence points with which to purchase equipment and facilities.  Guns are bought by the crate and you could have runway or helipad etc.  Some of this gets pretty wild, what with the conspiracy genre, but I think its an excellent backbone for intelligence and institutional/military game structures.  Theres a huge list of possible resources and services to call on, which helps delineate and express espionage type characters.

[chadu]

(snip) I've thought about checking out Savage Worlds after seeing the thread on the fantastic-sounding X-Com game being run with it, but I haven't done so yet.  Would that work?  What would?

Self-pimpery, of course (but your friend may not dig it because of RISUS/SORCERER/FUDGE look 'n feel):

1. Use the PDQ System from DEAD INSIDE. Just strip out the setting material of chapters 1 and 2, don't assign a Type or worry about Soul loss in Chapter 3, or use any of the Supernatural Abilities & Powers in Chapter 4. (Thus, make relevant changes in Chapter 3 for chargen, and use only pages 33 through 42 in Chapter 4. Though Virtue and Vice could be handy, so up thru page 44.) Easy-peasy.

2. Use my fairly-recent CiaB column "Spy Games" from Pyramid, if you're a subscriber.

QED.

:)

CU

[ethan_greer]

Savage Worlds is pretty good. I think it could handle pulp spy stuff okay, but I haven't tried it in that genre.

QAGS might also be worth a look.

[Doyce]

**Edited out because I'm an blind person, apparently.**

[Jere]

I'm very happy with http://www.innocence.com/games/age-of-paranoia/">Age of Paranoia, but that may be too subdued. And the non-dice scares some folks off.

While we're using it for Le Carre/Sandbaggers mode of play, I don't see why it couldn't work with something more Mission Impossible-ish.

Jere

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I suggest Fudge, but simply ignore the distinction between attributes and skills, treating anything as an "ability" in precisely the same manner as HeroQuest.

An alternative and extraordinary powerful system, which I think is very well suited to the GM's goals as best as I can tell, is Pocket Universe.

Both of these games (pending the Fudge tweaking) provide fast, clean, exciting play.

Best,
Ron

[Clinton R. Nixon]

I second contracycle's suggestion of Conspiracy X - it's one of the finest games of its type and genre. In play, it's very fast and smooth, and does that "system not getting in the way" thing that the kids like.

[RaconteurX]

I'm with Ralph... hunt down a copy of James Bond 007. Robust, fast-playing, remarkably elegant mechanic. Years ahead of its time. Can do very gritty espionage stuff even with very capable characters, just lower the Ease Factors.

[Grex]

Conspiracy X 2.ed. should be out later this year, retooled for Eden's own Unisystem. If you can't wait, I guess you could use the Angel RPG -- it has some nifty rules for organisations, cells, and megacorporations.

But really, you could use almost any modern-themed RPG. Savage Worlds is a good game, but it's all about the crunch and the cool combat. The rules does not explicitly support intrigue and social maneuvring, so if you want to play Smiley's people, it may not be what you're looking for.

Savage Worlds is more suited for a Sam Fisher-type of game, i.e. forced entry tooled to the max. with IR goggles and body armor, toting european sub-machineguns with laser sights and rubber combat grips.
(Edited)

[b_bankhead]

Hey Doyce, one game that does that get-the-toys-do-the-mission thang, Is Inspectres.  Al you have to do is change the name of few thing to give it that superspy flavor and you are ready to spin that smoking tape recorder. 'Confessionals' map to 'debreifing' pretty well. I would allow agents more talents as well but otherwise I think Inspectres would work perfectly with very little retooling...