offhand penalties

[Mike Holmes]

Lots of other ways that you might need to use the other hand.

* The usual hand is wounded beyond use in the fight. Even if it'll heal up someday, or be replaced with a hook or something, for right now, you need to use the other.

* Braggadocio. Per the Westly/Inigo scene. Or fighting with your good hand tied behind your back.

* Doing something more important with the primary hand, like carrying an infant (actually I trained to do that lefty so that I can use my right for other things - but I might be unusual).

* Fighting with a weapon specifically designed for the opposite hand. Might be able to use the other hand, but you'd still get a penalty (Modern Fencing epees come to mind).

So it's a pertinent question. I like Jake's answer, cutting proficiency down to a default level - and then I'd give another -1. Gives the untrained a need to use their primary hand, too.

Yes, pugilism is a "two weapon" style, and thus has no disadvantage for making the appropriate moves from the appropriate side. But if you wanted to fight "southpaw" you might have the penalty for, say, jabbing with the wrong hand. I can only see the braggadocio reasoning for why this might happen, however (there's no mechanical rule for "jabs" or such). Interestingly because I learned to fence when I was young, I also box southpaw. Meaning I have a nasty jab, but no cross at all.

Mike

[Turin]

If you use our scale, an average person (AG 4), would get a -4 penalty.
That would make it equally hard to cope with as a flat penalty. Same agility = same reflex = equally difficult.

I would think the high Ag type might even be worse off than the lower ag type using the wrong hand, from a relativity issue.

I mean if the high Ag is at a 100 skill level, and the lower ag type is at 70, if both of their abilities are dropped by 20%, the higher Ag has a higher relative penalty.

But aside from that. I think a flat -4 or something would work,  or even better what mike stated.

High Ag does not mean ambidaxtrousness - there are plenty of high ag types that cannot perform well with the off hand.  There are many basketball plyers with great agility that cannot dribble or shoot well with the off hand.  There are also many that are not as agile but are skilled with both hands.

[Richard_Strey]

First, I'd examine the combat pool and have a look at its components. We find
a) Natural abilities, the REFLEX, consisting of Agility and Wit, which are useable anywhere from a longsword fight to catching a thrown apple. Sense of timing, distance and "lines" (vectors of physical force) also belong here.
b) Trained abilities, the WEAPON PROFICIENCY, which mirrors technique and muscle memory (both offensive and defensive, which  blurs at a certain stage) built for using a certain weapon in a certain way.

So I'd say that, when using a weapon off-handed, you'd get all of your REFLEX dice and a certain portion of your WEAPON PROFICIENCY. After all, your sense of timing and distance couldn't care less in which hand you hold your weapon.
Now it comes down to just how much of your proficiency you can carry over. I'd make it simple:
1/4 PROFICIENCY without special training or gifts.
1/2 PROFICIENCY with the Ambidexterity Gift, Minor
3/4 PROFICIENCY with the Ambidexterity Gift, Major
FULL PROFICIENCY with any of the above and the difference trained by spending SA points.

[Dain]

So far Richard_Strey is closest to what my guess would have been based on the existing system...and seems to match what Jake said in this thread and the previous ones I inserted links to (especially the last one) in the posting on this thread right before Jake's post. Not saying the other ideas aren't good...just saying I think Richard's got it closer to what Jake was thinking by leaps and bounds.

[Valamir]

Hmmm.  

If you have a typical initial starting Proficiency of 8.  Then 1/4 is 2 dice and 1/2 and 4 dice.

That means the Minor gift of Ambidexterity is worth 2 dice, the major being worth 4.

Further, even with the major gift you're still down 2 dice.  Being down 2 dice is is a significant swing in TROS terms.  Significant enough perhaps to make the Major gift all but useless.

I'd be more inclined to make the minor gift simply lose 2 dice from the pool, and the major gift be get full dice.

[Starshadow]

I'd be more inclined to make the minor gift simply lose 2 dice from the pool, and the major gift be get full dice.

In our group, you get no penalties for using your either hand if you have the Ambidexterity gift.

I also wonder if I have missed something here...
Where does the minor Ambidexterity come from?
I always thought that ambidexterity was the ability to use both hands equally well, and in TRoS it was a major gift.

[Tash]

Ambidexterity, technically speaking, is when an individual is born without a genetic preference for either hand.  That would be a major gift.

While I don't think there is such a thing in the book as "minor ambidexterity" I would say that something like what I have (see my above post about switching hands due to injury) as a "minor gift" because it's not really the same as being ambi (I can only write with my right hand, because I learned to write while my left was still crippled from the burns).

[Turin]

I like richards system.  My only thought is that as Dexterity includes eye to hand coordination, the reflex should perhaps also suffer, as you usually do not have the base coordination in the off hand.

[aaronharmon]

The ambidexterity gift says you can fight either side without penalty, so I guess the question is what would be the penaly?