Is a Universalis LARP possible?

[Andrew Morris]

I was discussing Universalis with a friend the other day and he asked if it would be possible to run Universalis as a LARP. I immediately dismissed the idea and stated that I thought the nature of the game was such that couldn't be used in a LARP setting. I've been thinking about it more, though, and I've started to wonder. I'm leery of absolutes, but I can't think of how this could be made to work. So, I'm asking if anyone has any theories or ideas as to how to create a Universalis LARP. Even better would be any practical experience in this area.

[Christopher Weeks]

D@vid Seaward (in South Africa) is working on a Uni LARP of some kind.  It's mentioned on his TUA2 player page and I think in some thread here that I'm not immediately finding.  Just scroll back through the last three or four pages of threads looking for subjects.

Chris

[Jonathan Walton]

Totally possible.  Why not?

You get your prop box, with a bunch of random things in it, and you start brainstorming.

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  You'd just need some non-dice-based way of resolving Uni's mechanics and reallocating coins to people.

[Andrew Morris]

Well, the main reason it seems unworkable to me is changing the world, and not being able to get that information to everyone fast enough. For example, someone establishes that cloning technology exists and anyone can go buy a new clone body at the local Clones R Us, while at the same time, someone else creates an organization at the cutting edge of developing cloning technology, but they're years away from a human clone. A central area for posting information depends on people checking it before they do anything, so how would you get around that problem?

[Jonathan Walton]

See, I was thinking small-scale larp, with less than 15 people, not giant, 30-50 person larp.  Why do larps have to be huge?  I think there would definitely be issues with BIG Uni larps, but if you're running for an average sized gaming group (4-8 people), I think you'd be fine.

[Andrew Morris]

Ahh, well, I don't have much experience with LARPs that small. I think of 30-50 people as an average size LARP. So, if you're talking about only 4-8 people, what would be the advantage to running as a LARP as opposed to a table-top game?

[Jonathan Walton]

The advantage?  Well, I don't see any particular advantages.  I just see them as two rather different formats, both of which have their advantages and disadvantages.  I think it would be a very interesting thing to try and see how it turned out.

One possible advantage might be in mitigating the lack of immersive play that tends to plague Universalis and other meta-focused games.  In a larp, when individual players are virtually required to act out the actions and dialogue of specific players, immersion almost HAS to happen, to one degree or another.  It's harder to just say "Jason has an uncomfortable encounter with his girlfriend" and move on.  A larp format would encourage you to act out scenes instead of describing them from a meta perspective.

[Andrew Morris]

Right, I get you about the advantages and disadvantages of different formats. Where I'm coming from is playing in lots of LARPs that allow for lots of things to be going on at once, which is the main advantage for me. I don't see this happening with just a few players.

One thing that I can't see working in a Universalis LARP is the inherent turn-taking nature.

[Jonathan Walton]

See, I think that since Uni, by its very nature, calls for a rather different type of tabletop play, it would also call for a rather different type of larp play.  I don't know that it would necessarily have to be turn-based, but that might work.  I certainly think that a Universalis larp would look and feel very, very different from a traditional larp.

Additionally, I think you could still have different things happening in different places, as long as any world-altering things were always declared to the entire group (over a loud-speaker?  I don't know).  Another option: The larp version of Nobilis, A Game of Powers, advocates something called "delayed notification" (I forget the exact term), where you have a piece of paper or chalkboard in each major location, and arriving players bring the effects of changes made elsewhere with them, spreading them throughout the play area by writing them on the notice boards.  This might work in Uni too.  People would just have to be a bit more flexible than in traditional larps.

[Andrew Morris]

Good points Jonathan. I wonder exactly how a Universalis LARP would be different. I'm not at all opposed to doing something different, but as I said, my LARP experience has all been limited in form. I've been in a few smaller LARPs (usually at conventions), and some of those giant boffer combat games, but other than that, my LARP experience is very homogeneous. I'm used to long-running games with, as I mentioned, around 30-50 players at any particular event; they are usually very political/social in nature.

[Eero Tuovinen]

Why doesn't anybody mention using WAP-phones or something to keep an up-to-date archive of play statistics? I'd imagine that to be the simplest recourse if instant communication of changes is desired. Just put one person to act as the webmaster who takes care of updating, or even put in a simple enough program for it. Then everybody can upload their changes, and some kind of sound from the phone can be used to signify global changes everyone should note and possible challenge ("you have three minutes from the beep sound to upload your challenge"). I don't know about where you live, but I wouldn't see it overly problematic to have a hundred person Uni larp this way. if desired. As an added bonus it'd be easy to have it in many different locations at once, even on other side of the country.

That said, I'd think the chalk-board idea much more interesting. Problem is, it'd be interesting in a colorful "what are the implications for the world" way which is anathema to Universalis. It'd be effectively an unalterable fact of the setting that facts move at sublight speeds... hmm... makes for an interesting variant for tabletop play too, but it's really a flaw as far as general Universalis is concerned.

However, I cannot really believe that the issue here is something as mundane as communication. Don't you see any other problems with Uni-larp? How about fluid switching of roles, anathema to larping but essential to Universalis? How about crowd scenes? Larpers I hang out with can take pretty much suspension of disbelief, but usually it stops at imaginary people (there's probably an interesting reason for people being able to imagine that someone is not there, but being unable to imagine that someone is). Might be you know different kinds.

[Bob McNamee]

One plus for Universalis Complications is that the success rate is a 50%...allowing for just coinflipping, or something similar, rather than dice for each player.

You would have to fiddle with the Coin gain rate, if not using dice, but I think calling the winning side getting 3 Coins per success and the losing side gets 1 coin per coin flip ('dice roll' ) would be fairly close to regular Uni stats.

As others have pointed out, keeping track of new facts added is the tricky part.

There could be LARP specific Rules Gimmicks that limit how coins can be spent.

Such as "A Player can only spend Coins to add or subtract Facts or Traits from Components (including the Location)  that they are in the same Scene with, or engaged in a Complication with."

for more formal LARPS

Only Players designated  "GM's" can add or subtract  Facts that apply to the overall game Setting, or that have an extreme impact on the plots to date. "

and

"GM's" coins are always doubled when Challenging, and existing Facts supporting their side also add double their usual amount.

Not sure if these would work or not, but its some ideas to keep in mind.

[Andrew Morris]

Eero:

Great idea about the phone messaging. But what are the chances that everyone has a cell phone? I know lots of people who don't. Also, I totally agree with you about the fluid switching between  characters.

Bob:

Using dice is not a problem in LARPs. Someone around this area got the bright idea of putting dice in a compartmentalized clear plastic box. Shake the "dice box," count off the appropriate number of dice, and there you go. Yeah, it's not elegant, but it's easy to carry, you can use it anywhere, and it allows you to use the unmodified rules for many different systems. Nice ideas about limiting facts, though. That alone might solve a majority of the problems.

[Mike Holmes]

Eero's from Finland where they make the cell phones, so everybody is iissed them, I think. ;-)

Here are some of my thoughts about LARP Uni:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=9244

Here are some musings about diceless resolution:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=1505

Mike

[kwill]

heya,

I love LARP threads :) - I'm actually not "working on" a uni LARP, I just had an idea about using uni as a LARP writing tool (e.g. we have 10 players, we hold a uni session where the output (as backstory, setup or other) is the basis for the LARP -- we also play smaller LARPs down here)

mike challenged me to think of a uni-in-the-LARP game, which was tough, but reading this thread has got me seriously considering it again - the reference to the Nobilis LARP system got me thinking: structure your uni-LARP around the flow of information (which of course you define by a tenet)

especially if you have some kind of political setup, where certain things require votes/committees/authority to change/add, but small changes and paradoxes are allowed (and maybe there are rules for resolving paradoxes)

a mystical/metaphysical setting ala Nobilis is the easiest way to allow for this, off the top of my head, but that seems a bit trite

however, for now I'm in the middle of co-writing a regular-type LARP for our local con in August (and writing a big ol review of uni), and the new semester starts tomorrow, so consider me busy (but subscribed to the thread!)