Sword myths, help me out

[Emiricol]

Actually, most of your standard "survival style" knives are very good throwing knives... if they're any good as knives at all. The original K-BAR is one of the most popular throwing knives out there.

I hope you aren't suggesting the ka-bar is some crappy survival knife, with the exception of throwing.  They are incredibly utilitarian in general, and extremely well designed for use in combat as well.

[Eamon]

What?  You can't keep a sword on your back?  But Xena did it!  And Ninja did it in an old James Bond movie!  And Mel Gibson did it in Brave Heart!  It is a faster way to draw the weapon, and in fact, people didn't usually carry swords on their belts!

lol!  I love myths.

Come one, everyone knows the proper place to wear your sword is under your trenchcoat...:)

Well, thats how they do it today in modern times, when people walk around with swords getting ready for swordfights.  Afterall, a trenchcoat lets you completely hide the weapon no matter what the circumstances.  They would have used that ages ago, but materials that allow that of chicanary are synthetic in nature.

Heh heh.

[Paganini]

My favorite is straight down the center of your back, through a *hole* in your trenchcoat, with the handled directly behind your head.

I.e., Blade.... :)

[Tash]

Actually that's probably the only way I could possibly see wearing a sword under a trenchcoat working...at least as far as keeping the sword concealed.

Actually pulling the thing is another story.

In my oh so rebellious youth I was known to wear some rather interesting stuff under my trenchcoat....I was the only kid in my class who had a black leather trench with sai holder sewn into it :)

When you're fifteen these things seem like a MUCH cooler idea than they actually are....

[Paganini]

Actually, most of your standard "survival style" knives are very good throwing knives... if they're any good as knives at all. The original K-BAR is one of the most popular throwing knives out there.

I hope you aren't suggesting the ka-bar is some crappy survival knife, with the exception of throwing.  They are incredibly utilitarian in general, and extremely well designed for use in combat as well.

Nope, just the opposite. The K-BAR is a good throwing knife *because* it's a good knife overall. A bad survival knife is a bad throwing knife, for the same reasons that it's a bad survival knife. The K-BAR is a good throwing knife, for the same reasons that its a good knife overall.

[Tom]

Ah, I've been sloppy again. When I say 'change technique', in this case I mean the specific 'technique of wearing your sword'.

In other words - why sharp side down in full battle regalia, sharp side up otherwise?

I can only guess at that. From the background info I have I would bet on practicability. If you put it into the obi (sash), it simply is easier and more comfortable with the bend (sharp side) up. On an armour, I figure hanging it is simply the better way, and for stability reasons you'll want to hang it sharp side down. If you put your katana on a stand, btw., you also put it sharp side up, even during Iaido classes where you then turn it over to wear it.

[Eamon]

Nope, just the opposite. The K-BAR is a good throwing knife *because* it's a good knife overall. A bad survival knife is a bad throwing knife, for the same reasons that it's a bad survival knife. The K-BAR is a good throwing knife, for the same reasons that its a good knife overall.

Getting back to myth, the K-BAR sucks!  Compare it to the Rayvyn double bladed saw-backed knife with dragon handle and you will knowwhat I mean.  The Rayvyn knife's saw can be used to saw through stuff.  The double blades can be seperated and throwing like ninja stars.  And it looks k3w1!

[timfire]

Ah, I've been sloppy again. When I say 'change technique', in this case I mean the specific 'technique of wearing your sword'.

In other words - why sharp side down in full battle regalia, sharp side up otherwise?

I can only guess at that. From the background info I have I would bet on practicability. If you put it into the obi (sash), it simply is easier and more comfortable with the bend (sharp side) up. On an armour, I figure hanging it is simply the better way, and for stability reasons you'll want to hang it sharp side down. If you put your katana on a stand, btw., you also put it sharp side up, even during Iaido classes where you then turn it over to wear it.

I can give the reasons my iaido & kenjutsu teachers have given me for why you would wear a katana edge up or down, but I cannot confirm how historically relevent these reasons are.

Edge down: It's actually easier to draw a katana/ tachi edge down & hanging from the belt. When you draw a katana from the belt, most iaido/kenjutsu schools have you turn the sword sideways, if not totally upside down (ie, edge down) before you actually draw the sword. Drawing the sword sideways or edge down follows a more natural arm movement, which is important for an efficient draw-cut.

Also, when the sword is hanging from your belt, it gives you more room to draw the blade. When you draw a katana from your belt, unless you're using a relatively short blade, you actually have to pull the scabbard behind your back to gain enough reach to get the tip ofl the blade out of the scabbard. Hanging the scabbard easily gives you another 6-8 inches of reach.

Edge Up: One reason I've been given is to protect the edge of the blade. Keeping the edge up allows the sword to rest on its back & thus protects the edge from being dulled.

[F. Scott Banks]

Hmmm, I'm out of sword myths.  C'mon eamon.  We need you to say something horribly innacurate so that we can discuss at length how wrong it is.

By the way, the K-Bar does rock unholy ass and bayonets pretty much suck.  Of course, if you're using your rifle as a spear, you're probably beyond caring.  I've never purchased or used a "throwing knife" but most of the ones I've seen are of the Home Shopping Network variety.  Are there any "professional quality" throwing knives or are they all mail-order crap?

I'm serious.  I've never seen a "throwing knife" anywhere other than the Home Shopping Network and movies, both are probably responsible for eighty percent of the sword myths out there.  

The dragon is painted right on the blade people!  Right on the blade!  Just like the ancient Ninja Armies of Japan used when they conquered China!

Wow...so much unsubstantiated opinion.  I should probably debunk a myth while I'm here.

It is possible to parry with a broadsword.  I know I've said this, but I've never cited any facts.  Here are the requirements of every licensed fight choreographer in America.  You'll note that for the broadsword portion of the test, applicants are expected to perform no less than four different parrying techniques.

This doesn't answer the question of historical accuracy regarding whether or not original european broadsword fighters "used" the parry, but it does prove that it can be done.

Actually, I have woodblock prints that show broadsword fighters learning how to parry, but I dunno how to get 'em up.  For now, let's just say that it is possible to parry with a heavy sword and leave the debate over whether it was taught for another day

Stage Combat Requirements:
http://www.safd.org/training/spt_required.asp

[Valamir]

Of course, the existance of the "broad sword" is itself a myth.  There is no such actual weapon outside of D&D and museums still relying on 19th century categorization.

[Paganini]

By the way, the K-Bar does rock unholy ass and bayonets pretty much suck.  Of course, if you're using your rifle as a spear, you're probably beyond caring.  I've never purchased or used a "throwing knife" but most of the ones I've seen are of the Home Shopping Network variety.  Are there any "professional quality" throwing knives or are they all mail-order crap?

There are, in fact. The Viper (hand-crafted) sells for something like $200 and is apparently worth every cent. I can't speak from experience though,  I'm no where near buying a $200 throwing knife. However, there are also a lot of more reasonably priced knives designed specifically for tournaments by knife throwers. My Pro-target Dragons are 13.5 inches long, tough heat-treated spring steel. They're around $30 each. John Bailey also has a couple of really nice knives, and so does Gil Hibben, surprisingly enough. You have to get Hibben's really hefty knives, for real throwing fun. His little floaters are actually pretty decent, but you can't throw them any kind of distance at all.

Most real pro-knife throwers (those doing show or hollywood work) have their knives custom made, but I have spotted a couple of the "home shopping network" knives variety in movies. :)

[Paganini]

To debunk the debunker,

Ralph, there *is* in fact such a weapon! But it's not western. :) There's a Chinese weapon called a broadsword (the super literal translation of the name is something like "big knife"). It's basically a variety of falchion or cutlass. Single edge, curved, wide at the point with lots of chopping weight.

[Tash]

I was about to post that, but I figured from reading that site that it was using the term broadsword as a generic for what we'd probably refer to as an arming sword or longsword.

[Valamir]

All right...I'll spot you those crazy eastern weapons... :-)

and amend my statement to "there is no such European weapon..."

[Tash]

So what, if any, is the correct term for those things commonly called "basket hilt broadswords".  Are they a cut and thrust?  A smallsword? Something else?

Curious because I see the term a lot yet also hear that the name broadsword wasn't used until the 18th or 19th century....so what did the people who used them actually call them?