chain coif

[Sir Mathodius Black]

what area does it protect that helms do not, as it said it can be worm under other helms? im assuming the neck but im not sure...

SMB

[Irmo]

what area does it protect that helms do not, as it said it can be worm under other helms? im assuming the neck but im not sure...

SMB

Well, it all depends what type of helm and coif you talk about. A sallet will protect your neck pretty well, but then that's quite a late development. Then the question is whether you have an open or closed helmet. There are chain coifs which protect your chin and mouth area. And if it's a long one, it will reinforce protection of the shoulder as well.

[bottleneck]

what area does it protect that helms do not, as it said it can be worm under other helms? im assuming the neck but im not sure...

SMB

Stupid reply: it depends on the helm and it depends on the coif :-)

seriously: it does depend. Get a picture of a coif, you'll se it covers the neck, upper head, ears and probably throat.  The question is what the helm does _not_ cover.

A typical pot helm is poor on protecting the neck, but this depends a lot on the design of the helm. A great helm made specifically for the suit of plate you're wearing should be enough... (use common sense when applying AV and penalties to helmets; any superiour design is a fine helmet, anything that protects the eyes limits perception etc.)

But the easy answer: neck, probably throat (and everything if you're attacked from behind).

Remember that the coif is not only to give additional protection, it also allows you to take off your great helmet (so you can see something, bellow orders, get a drink...) without exposing yourself totally.

[Overdrive]

How about the chain coif padding? Surely it has to have padding, or else the blunt force of a strike will crack the skull, crush the throat, etc? I imagine the coif very uncomfortable to wear in warm weather, perhaps more so than just a helm. And how much should a chain coif + padding increase the AV of a location already covered by say, a pot helm?

[Irmo]

How about the chain coif padding? Surely it has to have padding, or else the blunt force of a strike will crack the skull, crush the throat, etc? I imagine the coif very uncomfortable to wear in warm weather, perhaps more so than just a helm. And how much should a chain coif + padding increase the AV of a location already covered by say, a pot helm?

You usually wear a padded cap underneath coif or helmet.  Such as this http://www.albionarmorers.com/accoutrements/armingcap.htm
or this
http://www.medieval-weaponry.com/en-us/dept_264.html
or this do-it-yourself version:
http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/armingcap_santob/


As for AV, I'd rather say that the padding is accounted for in the helmet AV, cause you sure don't want to wear one without proper undergarments, especially as some helmets require leather or padding applications on the coif for propper fit.

[Turin]

Kind of interesting but out of the TROS timeframe for the most part - The Byzantine Klibanophori actually wore a mail mask that protected the face, had eye holes to see through but appeared to be like a mail ski mask.

[bottleneck]

As for AV, I'd rather say that the padding is accounted for in the helmet AV, cause you sure don't want to wear one without proper undergarments, especially as some helmets require leather or padding applications on the coif for propper fit.

Agree. Arming caps are assumed for most helmets. For chainmail coifs, I assume that to fit a helmet on top of a coif, the helmet must be designed to do so: in other words that helmet assumes a coif.

The coif is good vs. sword slashes, but probably not so great against maces (like kevlar stops a knife, but try a hammer...). The helmet is great against bludgeons, but not flexible enough to cover your neck without restricting movement.

How I would do it in game: let the coif about AV:3 (guess it's thinner than the chain on your chest). For the helm+coif, AV:5 on top of the head (areas covered by the helm, possibly nose guard or visor, adjust penalties accordingly), then the coif gives AV:3 (or 4 if you like) for the neck and throat (what the coif is designed for). The penalites for only coif would be small or none (unless in hot, cold or humid climates), and the flexibility to add or remove the helmet (and thus penalties) would make this a good alternative the great helm.

arming caps - well, that's not armor as such. Cap without helmet could be AV:1 for same areas as the helm or so, but you're fighting in your underwear:-)

[Jake Norwood]

Kind of interesting but out of the TROS timeframe for the most part - The Byzantine Klibanophori actually wore a mail mask that protected the face, had eye holes to see through but appeared to be like a mail ski mask.

The Slavs used these through the TROS period, so it's all good.

Jake