Long? So What?

[ethan_greer]

I'm noticing lots of people are tacking "long" on the end of their subject lines when they post something that is more than a couple paragraphs.

Personally, I think everyone should stop doing that. A post's length has no bearing on its subject matter. Who cares if it's one paragraph or twenty pages? Does anyone actually eschew topics that have this "long" descriptor? If so, why? If you ask me, there are better uses for a post's subject line than informing the potential reader of the post's length.

Just a thought.

[Marco]

I'm noticing lots of people are tacking "long" on the end of their subject lines when they post something that is more than a couple paragraphs.

Personally, I think everyone should stop doing that. A post's length has no bearing on its subject matter. Who cares if it's one paragraph or twenty pages? Does anyone actually eschew topics that have this "long" descriptor? If so, why? If you ask me, there are better uses for a post's subject line than informing the potential reader of the post's length.

Just a thought.

IME: back in the old days (and today for people on slow-connect dialup) you would put LONG on your post so that people who had limited bandwidth could decide whether or not to view it, download it in the background, or skip it.

It was being polite.

I've always assumed the LONG descriptor was directly related to that ettiqute.

Today, I see LONG as an indication that I should have some block of time available before I dig into that post.

-Marco

[timfire]

In general, I appreciate a LONG tag, though I admit it doesn't really effect whether or not I read the post or not.

However, I have noticed that sometimes people do add a LONG tag on a post that really isn't long. There's a current thread, for example, that's only like 7 paragraphs, but the author threw a LONG tag onto the subject. I figure, if I can fit the entire post on my screen without scrolling, than it isn't really "long".

So I guess I'm arguing for continued, discretionary use of LONG tags.

[Joshua Tompkins]

Actually, as for me, I *prefer* posts with "long" tacked onto the subject - I'd almost always rather read the extended version rather then some summarized variant of same.

I guess that "long" really just tends to translate into "more in-depth" for me.

-joshua

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I'm interested in anyone's input about this topic, but specifically not any posts that merely state "I like it" or "I don't like it," even with reasons.

I'm interested in how anyone thinks this habit of thread-titling affects the goals of the Forge. Please weigh in if you'd like.

Best,
Ron

[LordSmerf]

Like most things in a (mostly) free form social environment i think that this cuts both ways.  The following is my (quick and dirty) breakdown of what this does.

1. Since we have no official definition of what makes a post "long" each person will be providing his or her own subjective definition.  While this really limits the value of supplying a "long" tag it by no means makes it useless.
2. It provides information about the poster.  First, that they believe that they have put a signifigant amount of time (probably more than average for them) into the post.  Second, it provides us with a data point about what they consider to be a "long" post.
3. The "Long" tag provides a warning.  The post will take more time to read than a non-"Long" post by the same author.  Again, note that this could mean the post is 400 words or 4000 depending on the author.

From a personal standpoint there are times when i will avoid a thread with a "long" tag because i simply do not feel up to getting into a serious discussion.

Thomas

[Andrew Martin]

The "long" tag's best use is for emails that might be accessed through a slow dialup connection or by a bandwidth restricted ISP. By accessing the email titles only, the person who has these limitations can then choose to not download the long email until a later date or time.

I think there's no need for a "long" tag for a post in a bulletin board, because usually the entire thread or the first X posts are shown by the bulletin board software and a thread of posts automatically becomes longer as people post to it. A short question could easily inspire dozens or hundreds of posts, and a post that's marked "long", (for example a setting description that asks no questions and is almost an advert, could have very few replies and be smaller than other threads.

Some posts that have been marked as "long" by the writer, would probably have been better marked as "essay" (or similar?). For example, Ron's post on the Whole Model, Valamir's post on player negotiation and so on. This would better indicate that the post is literally a essay rather than more usual initial post that's asking questions.

[ethan_greer]

A subject line is like a mini-advertisement that says, "Hey, read this!" Tacking the "long" descriptor on the end of the subject line, on the other hand, is a warning that says, "Hey, don't read this!" Seems counterproductive to me, that's all. Also, the use of "long" often says more about the poster than the post, making it basically just noise in the subject line. That's my main issue, but it's not really much more than a pet peeve, I guess.

Whether this habit has any effect on the goals of the Forge... Well, the only thing I can think of is, the "long" descriptor is, as I said, basically a warning. So if someone new to the Forge comes along and sees all the "long" posts, he or she may be put off from participating before reading anything. But I sort of doubt that's happening with any regularity.

I like Andrew's "Essay" idea. That, I think, would be much more useful than "long."

[Vaxalon]

"Long" vs. "Essay"

Cheese and rice.  This place can get pedantic, but this is ridiculous.  Are we going to end up chastising people for using "Long" and tell them to use "Essay" instead?

If a poster feels that he needs to put "Long" in his subject lines, then he should do so, and he shouldn't get jumped on for doing it.

[ethan_greer]

Relax, Fred. No one's jumping on anyone.

My post seeks understanding and expresses my opinion, nothing more.

[Vaxalon]

I'm not claiming that they are.

I just see no value to the question whatsoever.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

All comments noted and logged so far! Any other input, specifically about how this might or might not affect the actual Forge?

Actually, I just realized that maybe I didn't make myself clear in my previous post. It's not the [long] tag which is the issue. It's any tag which identifies "about this" stuff for a thread title.

I'll tell you my preference as content moderator: it is to use a simple on-topic phrase as thread title, with a bracketed prefix of a game title if that's appropriate, and leaving it off when not. For example:

[Dark Sun] Can you really be a naked warrior?

[My Life with Master] Trouble with the dice mechanic

On-line chat play vs. MMORPG

Korean philosophy as the basis for a resolution system

[RazorGrrl] Need some feedback on an experience point system

That sort of thing, without any further reference to whether the content is long or short, fat or thin, black or white, earth or martian. But I also recognize that this can't be policy, just a preference on my part.

What's up for discussion is whether bracketed suffixes which tell the reader about the content in a meta-sense (earth or martian, etc) should be disallowed here at the Forge.

Further thoughts solicited.

Best,
Ron

[ethan_greer]

I don't think bracketed suffixes should be disallowed by the official Forge rules; I don't see that including such a rule would make much difference with regard to the Forge fulfilling its purpose.

[Vaxalon]

Custom, preference, fine, but rules?  No.  Rules imply punishments, and what are you going to do if someone refuses to abide?  It's trivial.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Fred,

The Forge has rules. They are enforced in ways that aren't usually seen on the internet, and which rely on the substantial majority respecting the rules out of mutualistic interest.

If this "no suffix" thing is to be a rule, then it'll be enforced. In fact, you'd be expected to be part of that enforcement as a community member. That's what the Forge is like and what it's for, and I suggest you consider that point.

So everyone, the discussion is still open. Please address the precise point that I raised in my earlier post, if you're interested in the issue.

Best,
Ron