Welfare Publishing

[Matt Gwinn]

Ok, I really want to have copies of Kayfabe available for GENCON this year, but from the looks of things I won't have more than about $500 to put towards it.

I'm trying to deside if it would be better to give away ashcans and try to drum up interested to sell the PDF online or if I should try and produce what I can with my $500 and sell printed copies of the game.  The way I see it is if "Kobolds Ate My Baby" can sell for $5.00 a shot I should be able to sell Kayfabe for at least $10.00.  The quality of the Kobolds game was no better than the ashcans for Wyrd I made for Moose last year and I pretty much made those for nothing.

Any suggestions?

,Matt

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Matt (eloran),

I suggest:

1) Ashcans, perhaps with a heavy/rough cover stock, and at least five illustrations.

2) Sell them at GenCon for $5 apiece. I think that for $10, people's minds move into "real book" territory.

3) If you want, permit people to buy them over the net as well (starting before GenCon if you want; doesn't matter), probably charging $5 plus an "average postage."

4) Playtest it about three more times first. I'm serious - and work very hard to distinguish between (a) slavishly obeying every little whine about something the player didn't understand and (b) refusing to change anything.

Best,
Ron

[Dav]

Uhh, what Ron said... with particular emphasis on 1 & 2.

If you need a hand with printing facilities for your ashcan, let me know.

Dav

[Matt Gwinn]

1) Ashcans, perhaps with a heavy/rough cover stock, and at least five illustrations.

That's what I had in mind.  The copy I'm currently giving away at my site is 50 pages with 15 illustrations.  I'm figuring I will spruce it up a little (to warrent charging for something I've already been giving away for free) and maybe add a few examples of play and new options.

2) Sell them at GenCon for $5 apiece. I think that for $10, people's minds move into "real book" territory.

I see your point.  I can live with $5.  I just hope I can recoop my costs at that price.  WHich brings mne to my next question.  How many copies should I make?  Last years we made about 60 copies of the Wyrd ashcan and they went pretty fast, but they were free.  I don't want to make too many and end up loosing hundreds of dollars.  

I'm still concerned over the interest level.  After Bulletshower's raving review over at RPG net my web site got nearly 1500 visitors in about a week.  I was pretty excited about that.  What worries me is that none of those visitors have emailed me or signed my guest book.  I guess I still suffer from a lack of confidence and longing for recognition.  OH well, I guess I'll find out in August.

3) If you want, permit people to buy them over the net as well (starting before GenCon if you want; doesn't matter), probably charging $5 plus an "average postage."

Should I take down the PDF I have up now?  At the moment I'm asking for $5 donations (I've received $0 so far). Should I start charging outright?

4) Playtest it about three more times first. I'm serious - and work very hard to distinguish between (a) slavishly obeying every little whine about something the player didn't understand and (b) refusing to change anything.

I'm pretty happy with the way the rules are now and I think I've gotten past the thought of trying to make everyone happy.  I'm willing to add things, but the core rules are pretty concrete as far as I'm concerned.

,Matt

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Matt,

I guess it's pretty much your decision when you go from "download this" to "pay or don't get it," but clearly when GenCon hits, that transition should have been made.

I agree that cost-effectiveness is important. I'm not sure what the numbers will be, but figure out what 30 copies will cost you, and make sure to sell them at a price that profits-per-unit. At this point, it won't be too unlikely that you'll sell out.

Don't sweat it if you bring "too few" and they all sell. That would be a GOOD thing, not a problem at all. Don't forget that the GenCon booth is set up for actual play, so you'll have plenty of opportunities simply to grab an interested person and run a wrestle-scene then and there. That kind of exposure results in sales really fast.

Finally, I hope to get a session or two of Kayfabe in myself fairly soon, especially since I have Doc Midnite nearby to provide the necessary ... um, whatever-it-is that fires up the wrestling fans.

Best,
Ron

[Adam]

You mean the built in understanding that wrestling is the coolest thing on the planet, Ron? :-)

I'll buy Kayfabe whether it's $5 or $10 - from what I've seen it's pretty close to what I wanted to do with Full Count, just Kayfabe managed to get finished. <grin>

As for suggestions: I'd changed all caps text to bold, remove the underlines [very retro IMO, and not in a good way], and reduce font size overall, to make it a bit thinner and to give a more pro appearance.

I noticed a few typos in a quick skim of the current version of the PDF; I'll do a more thorough read and email those to you in a bit.

[Matt Gwinn]

As for suggestions: I'd changed all caps text to bold, remove the underlines [very retro IMO, and not in a good way], and reduce font size overall, to make it a bit thinner and to give a more pro appearance.

I intend to totally revamp the layout before CON.  It's been suggested that I try to lay it out like a wrestling magazine.  I've picked a few up and I'm considering my options.

I noticed a few typos in a quick skim of the current version of the PDF; I'll do a more thorough read and email those to you in a bit.

Damn, I thought I caught all of those in version 5.0.  Proofreading has never been my strong point.  Especially with stuff I write myself.  THanks for the heads up Adam.

,Matt

[Adam]

I intend to totally revamp the layout before CON.  It's been suggested that I try to lay it out like a wrestling magazine.  I've picked a few up and I'm considering my options.

Interesting idea, especially if it's like an 80 style mark mag. That, combined with the ashcan format would be pretty cool, IMO. That or laying it out like an issue of Wrestling Observer or Pro Wrestling Torch, but I don't actually know what they look like. I keep intending to subscribe but never do. ;-)

Damn, I thought I caught all of those in version 5.0.  Proofreading has never been my strong point.  Especially with stuff I write myself.  THanks for the heads up Adam.

Hell, there's no way you can catch every mispelling or typo you make in your own work. I can say this with conviction because somebody always finds a typo of mine to point out. *grin*

[Adam]

Matt,

Would you like me to post comments here, post them in another of the forums here, or just email them?

I'm going through a copy right now with my trusty highlighter, and have both typographical/grammar/explanation type suggestions and suggestions related to the actual game itself.