Buying Art?

[Rayston]

First of all let me apologize if this   question has already been asked, I looked around and could not find it.

Is there any sort of boilerplate legal form for buying publishing rights to art? How about a site or resource that talks about  the  standard pay rates and  such?

I would prefer web resources but good book referralls would be appreciated as well.

Thank you

Rayston

[Grand_Commander13]

$100 for a full-page picture in pencil.  Same proportion for smaller pieces (a quarter-page is $25, etc...).

That's the standard art fee.  As for resources, I don't even know if there are any.   I'd answer your other question, but I don't have a clue what boilerplate legal means.

[jdagna]

Don't pay any attention to standard art fees except possibly as a way to roughly budget what you'll need to get a project done.  I can tell you that I'm paying well under $100 for full page pencil and from people who make their primary living from art... but this is partly because of how I work with them, partly because I pay part up front and always on time, and partly because I give them a lot of work fairly regularly.  I also pay higher rates proportionately for smaller pieces... if I paid $100 for a full page, I'd be paying $40 for a quarter page and $70 for a half page, because I recognize that a certain amount of the work in a piece comes from the concept, which doesn't depend on size.

Everything is always negotiable with independent contractors, so don't trap yourself by thinking you have to meet any particular bar.  Most people will take a lot less money in exchange for a lot more security - if you can offer that cheaply, you've got it made.  (Just as a simple example of that, if an artist would want $100 for a piece upon publication, he might expect $1000 in royalties, knowing that the chances of seeing any royalty is slim.  On the other hand, he might be happy with a mere $50 up front, just knowing that he'd get paid whether the piece gets published or not).

[Rayston]

Boilerplate  Legal Form= Pre-made  ready to go form that  will  cover  most of the legal situations it applys to. For example many apartment complexes have you sign a lease that they just  got from a premade form, they didnt  have a custom lease written up by a lawyer  just for them.

I  found the following if anyones interested.

http://www.findlegalforms.com/xcart/customer/home.php?cat=700&partner=findforms

[jblittlefield]

Don't pay any attention to standard art fees except possibly as a way to roughly budget what you'll need to get a project done.

So true! We are in the process of sealing a deal with a relatively well-known artist in which he will be doing a color cover for $350 and the equivalent of 34 interior illos (20 quarters, 3 halves, and 2 fulls - b/w, pen and ink) for $650 ($19.12 per quarter-page equivalent). All we had to do was promise to use him on some future projects and some free publicity (a sub-page on our website).

[Ampere]

First of all let me apologize if this   question has already been asked, I looked around and could not find it.

Is there any sort of boilerplate legal form for buying publishing rights to art? How about a site or resource that talks about  the  standard pay rates and  such?

I would prefer web resources but good book referralls would be appreciated as well.

Thank you

Rayston

Dumb question, but do you mean contracts and NDAs?
Like, contracts says you own the art and the illustrator can use the art for self-promotion, etc?

Jeff Preston
http://willwerks.net/v-web/gallery/albums.php

[Luke]

why bother? Why not just use a verbal agreement? It's equally verbally binding.

"I want to comission a piece of X dimension for use in this book and for Y promotional materials. You can use the art for your own promotional purposes. You cannot reuse/resell the art to be used in other roleplaying games or related materials."

If an artist really needs a contract, I usually write up a paragraph stating exactly what the terms of use are. Both people sign it, and you're covered.

-L

[jdagna]

Luke, I would always put something in writing.  In all my time working here, the only disagreement I've ever had with an artist happened with a friend where I hadn't insisted on a contract.

But you're right that a formal contract isn't always needed.  A simple paragraph outlining the project can do, if both people sign it.

[Luke]

HI Justin.

Funny, the only art I worry about is the stuff I had to sign this ridiculous contract for. We're talking about pennies here. Pennies. Who's going to dispute this stuff?

And a verbal agreement is as legally binding as any other contract. Which is: not much.
In fact, there is an implicit agreement/contract involved when the work is comissioned: I pay you X for Y; I agree to use it for the purpose stated, you agree not to use it elsewhere.

I've only been doing this for a couple of years, and I've only published four books, so my range of experience is pretty limited. But no piece of paper is going to stop someone from screwing you. A lawyer, however, might be a better prospect.

Wait. I just had a revelation. Contracts, law, boilerplates: Whenever dealing with this crap, you should talk to a lawyer.

I'm not a lawyer. None of my advice should be construed as legally valid. If you really want to get a proper "legally binding contract" for work for hire, talk to a lawyer. Those are, I imagine, the only contracts that will be worth it.

Lawyers aren't scary, btw. They're a dime a dozen. I talk to "my lawyer" (my friend who is a lawyer) once a week.

-L

[Veritas Games]

And a verbal agreement is as legally binding as any other contract. Which is: not much.
In fact, there is an implicit agreement/contract involved when the work is comissioned: I pay you X for Y; I agree to use it for the purpose stated, you agree not to use it elsewhere.

This is only theoretically true.  And not in all areas.  If memory serves, for transfer of copyright there must be written documentation (if the transfer is permanent instead of just a license to use).

Next, a verbal agreement is only as good as the truthfulness and memory of the parties.  If you get in a verbal agreement with me and I forget everything or lie about everything then unless there is a good evidentiary trail you are screwed.

That's why you never make a loan based on a verbal agreement.  You'll find very quickly that it gets turned into a gift.

But no piece of paper is going to stop someone from screwing you. A lawyer, however, might be a better prospect.

True.  But a piece of paper might give you legal rights to successfully sue for damages.

[Rayston]

Dumb question, but do you mean contracts and NDAs?
Like, contracts says you own the art and the illustrator can use the art for self-promotion, etc?

Jeff Preston
http://willwerks.net/v-web/gallery/albums.php

Precisely

[KeithBVaughn]

There's a story out there (maybe an urban legend) of a small publisher paying a few thousand dollars for a cover painting by commisioning a painter to make a painting for him. The artist came through and painted a good painting. Then the artist asked him how much he was willing to pay for the reproduction rights on his painting. i.e. the publisher couldn't make one copy of the painting without paying the artist more money up front!

Put it in writing so both sides know what theyare getting and not getting.

Keith

[Bardsandsages]

I would never dream of not putting it in writing, though it doesn't need to be as formal as a contract.  With my primary illustrators, the details were spelled out in e-mails back and forth to each other.  Then I purchased a bunch of secondary filler pieces from various artists and handled it the same way.  My agreement with them is that I have a non-exclusive agreement, which means I can use the art in any way related to the Neiyar project, but in exchange they retain the rights to their work use for themselves.  And I paid them all as soon as I received the artwork.  I don't believe in making artists wait for art.  

$100 a page? Wow, I got off really cheap.  I paid about $5 per art piece for the secondary stuff.  Of course, I recruited new artists.  They are however getting a perhaps better form of payment in that they now have something to put on their resume, and for one of my illustrators a letter of reference helped him land a new job.  I've learned there are multiple ways to pay for work, and most of them do not involve actual money changing hands.