RPGNow + LuLu

[Nathan]

Yup, I don't think the announcement is completely official yet, but I hear it is going up soon.

RPGNow is switching their POD services to go through LuLu.com. This means that your PDFs that you sell through RPGNow.com can be (pretty much) instantly punched over to print versions through LuLu's awesome setup. Plus, RPGNow is building this all around (and inside of) their current store, so print versions of games can get exposed to the market that wants to buy them. Cool, right?

For example:
http://www.lulu.com/rpgnow

I'm stoked about this. It will make it easier for me to get print versions out there for my games, as well as market them in one place. It's like two superheroes combining forces to combat crime... (or something)

Any thoughts?

Peace,
Nathan

[daMoose_Neo]

Um...honestly, it terrifies me. Unless RPGMall is still printing.
Case in point- I am JUST wrapping up work on a game, still got a bit to go, but I really liked RPGM's 4.25x5.5 size as thats a nice pocket book, and considering what my game is I'd be thrilled with that- its perfect! Copy would cost me almost two bucks, can get away with a price tag of $5, I'm thrilled, can move copies on a "Dude, this is hilarious, check it out" basis (as word of mouth already spreads among my playtesters friends).
Just checked out Lulu prices...$5.57 COST.
Scares me like a 10 year old catholic school girl.

[Nathan]

Howdy,

So this is what I wasn't aware of.. so the question is --

Is this new partnership going to change anyone's print-on-demand plans for their products? And how?

And furthermore, how can "indie" publishers leverage some marketing out of this?

Peace,
Nathan

[madelf]

The only real issue I have with lulu is their annoying policy of charging the exact same price regardless of the book's dimensions (and they're the only POD place I've ever found that does it that way - usually a smaller format book is cheaper, even to the extent of still being able to save money even while upping the page count to balance the smaller size).  With lulu, a 150 page 6"x9" costs the same amount as a 150 page 8-1/2"x11", making the smaller formats damned expensive for what you're getting. For people doing the "standard" size books it works fine, but folks like me who like the smaller sizes get screwed on the deal.

As far as still being able to get the lower prices, that's still possible at a number of short-run POD places.  You just have to buy a chunk of copies at once (actually lulu discounts bulk orders too I believe - though I'm not sure how much). And (at least for the time being) RPGnow says they're willing to warehouse books you send them, which have been printed elsewhere, and still list them in the RPGnow catalog just like the stuff from lulu.

The reason RPGnow is going with lulu is because most of the PDF publishers they work with aren't willing to buy 10 copies of their book at a time. They want (or claim they want anyway - we'll see how many actually jump on board) the zero cost setup and individual copy capability of lulu. Apparently almost no one has been using the RPGmall service.

[daMoose_Neo]

I'm scouring all three sites and the forums (RPGNow, RPGMall and RPGNow's Lulu page), and I'm not seeing any note of discontinuation...
If this is true, and RPGMall (branch that did RPGN's printing) is still doing the print runs, I'm okay myself.
Has anyone on RPGNow/RPGMall recieved a notice that these print services would be discontinued or was it "Or you can order through Lulu now!"?

[Valamir]

The reason RPGnow is going with lulu is because most of the PDF publishers they work with aren't willing to buy 10 copies of their book at a time.

Wow.  Is that an accurate statement or speculation?

If true I'm stunned.  I mean...lacking the confidence in your own product to buy TEN copies...that's what $20-$50 out of pocket...you're not willing to invest that little in your own game?...

To me that's essentially proclaiming "I think my game sucks so I'm not going to buy even 10 copies...but I'm putting it up on RPGmall hoping some other sucker will throw their money away on it"

I mean...for someone dedicated to PDF only for philosophical reasons, that's one thing.  But for someone who wants POD but isn't willing to spend that little...

[daMoose_Neo]

True true.
Hell, I planned on ordering 20 copies right off the bat for myself :D
According to James the old service will be up for a bit yet, and does lamination now apperently.

[madelf]

Wow.  Is that an accurate statement or speculation?

Speculation based on extended observation. (And my own opinion, of course) But honestly... I believe it's pretty accurate. It's not universal by any means, but I think a lot of the PDF publishers are spoiled by the near-zero expense of the format. (I know I would be) And there do seem to be a those who are very interested in the new plan of going with lulu.
(I'm interested too, but I see more value in the potential of getting POD books exposed to the customer base of RPG now. Afterall, anyone can go to lulu on their own)

Also keep in mind that a number of these guys are geared to the d20 market and high output. They aren't trying to sell "a game". For the most part, they're trying to sell multiple books and crank out more in record time (I'd say it bears more than a passing resemblance to the "supplement treadmill" of traditional distribution). Think of the outlay for even short print runs of a dozen books or more. It makes that zero-cost POD option look pretty nice.

Edit:
As I think more about this, I wonder how the growing model of multiple short PDFs and the new integrated POD option are going to mesh. Going POD is slightly silly for short supplements (which are possibly the most common new products on RPGnow), while the bigger books are less suited for PDF and more for POD. This could, possibly, have the potential to tip the balance back in favor of longer products as a profitable option. And I'm curious how much cross-over there will be between POD and PDF for the same products.

It should be interesting to watch.

[rpghost]

Case in point- I am JUST wrapping up work on a game, still got a bit to go, but I really liked RPGM's 4.25x5.5 size as thats a nice pocket book, ... Just checked out Lulu prices...$5.57 COST.

RPGMall will still be using it's old cheap printer to do books and order 10+ qty. They have added a laminated cover to the mix (download the new worksheet). So you can still get your books cheap that route. As for the future of RPGMall, I'm not sure yet. But the statement about the biggest complaint at RPGMall being the some $30 investment in 10 books is true. I find it hard to believe as well, but people want true POD, so we're giving them true POD at about $2 more per book cost.

As for RPGNow.com, well the idea behind putting POD back into the system is basically that people want it all in one place and don't want multiple checkouts or to promote multiple locations, etc. That and the ZERO up front fees to get involved.

The true point through is that RPGNow's brand and 60,000 plus customers are where it's at these days... so best make a seemless integration for the customer to buy. In the last 4 days since we opened, we've sold over 30 books. That's more then RPGMall typically sells of a POD in a month. The main difference being that RPGNow is marketing your product now, where RPGMall it's mostly up to you to do it. We also have about 80 product available already (more then RPGMall I think already).

I suspect that many of the small-PDF releases we've been seeing will now have bundle versions available in PDF and POD.

Watch for our full page ads in Dungeon, Dragon, KOTD, Dork Tower, and the onsite guide for GenCon. We're dumping some $10K in promoting this.

More info:
http://www.rpgnow.com/pod.php

James

[Solly Brown]

Dog Town is one of those 40 books that has sold on rpgnow. It is a great development for the independent publisher integrating pdf's and pod. The production quality by Lulu is superb, and the set up simple.

Rpgnow is a great supporter of independent publishers and this is  is a marriage made in Heaven

Jonathan Ridd
Cold Blooded Games

[Lxndr]

Hrm.  I have an 8.5 x 11 PDF for sale on rpgnow, and a book for sale on Lulu in their half-size (6 x 9, I think).  Two different formats, etc.  Can they still be married, so to speak?  Who would I speak to about this?

[rpghost]

Hrm.  I have an 8.5 x 11 PDF for sale on rpgnow, and a book for sale on Lulu in their half-size (6 x 9, I think).  Two different formats, etc.  Can they still be married, so to speak?  Who would I speak to about this?

Are you not getting our many mailings? Are you not on our private publishers forum? Have you read the help guide?

The short answer is you need to upload them to our account. Doesn't matter what the format is as long as the customer knows what to expect.

But the rates for 6x9 are the same as 8.5x11 so I'm not sure why you'd want to do that.

James

[Lxndr]

I've been out, broke my arm in a motorcycle accident, and haven't had much of a chance to page through the months of email that accumulated in the interim.  

That said, I like the 6x9 size better, and when last I printed through Lulu, I recall there was some sort of advantage for doing so, though perhaps they've changed printers since then.  Their site is down so I can't check to see what's changed there.

Thanks, James.

[Bardsandsages]

I just went through this whole mess with RPGNow and RPGMall.  I am already set up with Lulu on my own.  I listed my products with RPGNow, uploading them separately to RPGNow's account (I'm not comfortable with the fact that any other publisher can access my files, and I theirs, BTW).  But other than that, the process was quick and painless.  Then I enrolled at RPGMall and asked what process I needed to go through to get my books listed.  

The first e-mail I received said I needed to send actual hard copies of my book to their warehouse, or order them through RPGNow and have them sent to the warehouse.

Then, I got an e-mail from the owner at RPGNow, telling me that I did NOT need to send books if they were already uploaded for POD at RPGNow.

Then I got another e-mail saying my books were set up wrong, and even once I made the corrections, I would have to send books to the warehouse to get them listed at RPGMall.

Finally, after a string of queries, I got another e-mail from the owner saying that I DID need to send books to the warehouse, because RPGNow and RPGMall are operated as two separate businesses.

So I'm sending copies of my books to RPGMall.  

Now working in manufacturing, I know how expensive warehouse space is.  So even if RPGMall and RPGNow are being operated as separate entities, it would make financial sense that, if a book is available POD through RPGNow already, that you would NOT want the book taking up shelf space at the warehouse.  particularly when you are telling publishers you do not want them sending more than five or ten copies.  It has to be an inventory nightmare.  POD technology is much cleaner, requires no inventory tracking, and less manpower.  

POD should make things more streamline, but at this point it seems RPGNOW/RPGMALL is making it more complicated for themselves than they need to.  Of course, as this is all new for them as well I suspect things will get smoother as they work out the bugs.

As far as my experiences with dealing with Lulu directly, I have been very happy with them so far.  And they have in the short time I have been working with them already made a lot of positive changes to their format, and are working on more.  I think the partnership between Lulu and RPGNow can be a great benefit to everyone involved once the kinks get worked out.

[rpghost]

Not sure why you find the need to air this in public... but there was a confusion in what you wanted and we resolved it, no harm in that. The LULU account will be locked to our staff only in April.

As for RPGMall, that's a whole different staff and they pick products off shelves and add them to an order and ship them out. They do not need to deal with LULU and the hassles of making orders or paying 2 shipping charges... it's not the way RPGMall does business.

As you say, things are still new and in flux... it's possible RPGMall will even go away. We'll see.

James