Looking for someone to cowrite a game with

[Kit]

Hi,

If you know me at all it's probably from my intermittent wittering about my homebrew system called Option. It's been a project of mine on a semi-regular basis for about 5-6 months now.

Unfortunately I'm coming to the realisation that I'm very unlikely to be able to finish it on my own, and was thus hoping for someone to cowrite it with. I've currently got people to bounce ideas off, but basically most of their involvement is just for me to get opinions on existing mechanics or occasionally to suggest a new one (the latter part is mostly over. 90% of the core Option mechanics are in a semi-stable state at this stage. They just need a lot of details sorted out. I am however amenable to changing some of them if neccesary; they're not set in stone by any means).

A rather spotty and incomplete writeup of what's been done so far is available here: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~drm39/writings.html (scroll down to the bottom, past the scary maths papers).

Essentially my two main problems which are preventing me from writing this are inexperience (both at writing a game and at gaming with a variety of systems. I've played a lot of D&D 2 and 3, a medium amount of GURPS and a few sessions of Call of Cthulhu) and a difficulty with focusing on details.

If the last part is sending off warning bells in your brain, I should clarify: What I am *not* saying is `hey guys I have this really cool idea but I can't be bothered to sort out the details. Could someone do it for me?'. I'm quite happy to work on the details when they're actually brought to my attention. It's just that I have a natural tendency to be a bit vague and wing things. I probably have a much better idea of the details in my head than shows on paper, but I need someone to help me pin them down.

Oh. I don't think it's clear in the system writeup above, but Option is for classic play with a GM. However it de-emphasises the `GM as god and is thus free to ignore the rules' chestnut. The rules should in principle not require GM arbitration (a marker for this I'm using that a friend suggested is that the rules should be easily implemented in a CRPG if neccesary, without need for human intervention for their interpretation. This probably won't be achieved in practice but it's a good idea to keep in mind).

Oh, a warning. If you haven't guessed already, I'm a mathematician. As such there's a reasonable amount of maths going into the design of this game. This should not appear in actual play (most of the maths is done in advance, and the character design is such that most of the irritating modifier additions are sorted out before play. Theoretically.). So ideally I'd be looking for someone not scared of some maths.

Thanks,
David

[Ben Lehman]

Will you be paying said theoretical co-author?  Right now, I fail to see what I would get out of helping you, if I did.  (not that I probably have time to take on another writing project right now)

[Kit]

The game isn't really intended for eventual publication. It will presumably be made freely available online. Thus the request is only if someone is actually interested in the project in and of itself, rather than as a business proposition.

So, in short, no. There will be no payment for this (except in the highly unlikely event that this does go commercial after all, in which case something would certainly be worked out).

[TonyLB]

You know what would be neat?  If somebody posted "I'd like to co-write a game with an experienced designer... you pick the game, and provide artistic direction, and I will take away from it the insights, experience and credit to be gained from the association."

I'd be very tempted by such an offer, and I suspect some folks a lot more illustrious than me might feel the same.

[Kit]

Could I get a clarification on your post please TonyLB? To me it looks like it's dripping with sarcasm, but (especially given that this is The Forge) I'd prefer to give it the benefit of the doubt before responding to it as such.

[TonyLB]

Dude, no, I'm totally serious.  I'd totally be tempted by that offer.  And I think it would be a really good way for someone to get a lot of valuable information about the design process.

In fact, in retrospect, I'm disappointed that I didn't think of doing it myself.  Maybe I'll go collar Vincent or Ron or somebody and ask them.

Now it may not be for you, since you seem to have goals above and beyond "learning what it's like to design a game," so I do have to apologize for somewhat hijacking your thread.  Sorry about that....

[Kit]

No worries about it at all. I've just occasionally encountered some rather unpleasant responses online and wasn't sure whether your post was intended seriously or not, hence my question. Sorry if I ended up causing offence myself, and don't worry about the hijack at all.

Anyway, I do actually agree that what you're suggesting sounds like a fun idea. It's not what I'm looking for at the moment (I'd really like to try and get Option finished before I start on any new sort of game design project), but it is actually an idea I'd be interested in myself at some point. Some point waaaay in the future. :-)

[TonyLB]

Oh, no... no offense taken at all!  I did a complete non-sequiter, because my train of thought skipped a rail to a place I thought was interesting.  I have no trouble at all seeing how it could be read as sarcastic.

[Ben Lehman]

The game isn't really intended for eventual publication. It will presumably be made freely available online. Thus the request is only if someone is actually interested in the project in and of itself, rather than as a business proposition.

Why not intended for publication, out of curiousity?

What you are looking for is someone who has enough faith and confidence in your game to go through the quite arduous task of writing a rulebook for you.  I sincerely doubt you are going to find such a person but, if you could, I imagine it would be because your game was really awesome.  If it was really awesome, why not publish it?

This post looks, to me, like someone saying "I have done all the fun parts of game design.  Now could someone else please do the tough, sloggy, hard parts for me?"  If you are really incapable of writing up your own rules documents, I suggest you'll be more successful finding a writer by paying them a little money.

I'm sorry that this sounds so hostile.  I'm really sympathetic to you.  I'm in the process of writing a rulebook right now, and it is a really hard thing.  I wish I didn't have to do it.  But I do, 'cause I can't afford someone else to do it for me.

yrs--
--Ben

[Kit]

Well, it's not that I'm averse to the idea of publication as such. The problem is that I'm unconvinced of the market. RPGs are a niche market as it is, and while *I* happen to think that the underlying concepts for Option are Really Cool, I'm skeptical that it would really be seen as more than `yet another universal RPG'.

I'm perhaps exagerating the not for publication point. I could certainly  be persuaded otherwise if it turns out a really great game which causes everyone who plays it to swoon over in delight. It's more that I wouldn't count on it, and I'm much more interested in the project for its own sake than as a potential money maker.

You seem to have misinterpreted my request. I'm most definitely asking for a cowriter, and not a writer. i.e. to write the book with rather than for. Indeed I'm quite happy to do all the actual writing side of it if they so desire. The issue is on pinning down what the actual mechanics of it are to be, and it is on this point that I feel I need help.

I agree it's rather unlikely that I'm going to find someone interested in doing so. Still, can't hurt to ask can it? :-)

[Doug Ruff]

Kit,

If you need a 'mechanics' monkey to bounce ideas off of and to help you work out a coherent system for your game, then I'm more than happy to help. It's really only an extension of what goes on in a lot of Indie Game Design threads anyway. And I am not scared of maths. And you still get to be the head honcho! And you don't have to pay me!

What I can't do for you (and I think a lot of people will give you the same answer) is to type up lots of copy - we're all working on our own projects, and typing it all up is the most time consuming part of the process.

But I'll level with you -  whoever you work with, you need to communicate to them a very strong vision of what you want your game to be about.

I've read the pdf (couldn't open the modifier tree file) and I'm seeing some interesting mechanics, but nothing that really tells me what those mechanics are trying to achieve.

So, if you'd like the help, sell me your game concept, here or by PM. If you do a pitch, don't tell me about the mechanics - tell me what I will be able to use the game for, and why it's going to be a great game. I'll help you to focus on how to make your mechanics deliver on that promise.

[Emily Care]

Publishing can be as simple as making a pdf. No reason not to aim for that. Publish for pay may not be what you are aiming for. No harm there. Free games are still published games.

What Tony suggested sounds like mentoring to me. That's an excellent idea, though does ask for a big commitment on the part of the mentor.

And I was going to say something about making your concept more clear--but Doug said it to the tee.

Best of luck with it.

--Emily

[Kit]

Yeah, sorry. That pdf isn't really designed to advertise the game. It's a writeup that was originally intended for the people I've already been discussing it with. Hence it being heavy on the mechanics of how the game works rather than what the game is for. I do have a much clearer idea of what I'm trying to achieve with the game than shows through, although I will confess that design so far has been a bit too heavy on cool mechanics and not enough on clear goals.

Anyway, I should really have written up a better presentation of it before making this request. Apologies for not doing so.

Doug, thanks very much for the offer. It's past midnight over here and I should be in bed, so I shan't write up and send you the concept now, but I shall certainly do so tomorrow. As mentioned, I'm more than happy to do the actual writing up: I guess cowriter was really a bad term for what I'm asking for. My request certainly wasn't made out of an unwillingness to do the grunt work, but out of acknowledgement of the flaws in my own creative process. Thus the role of `mechanics monkey' is much appreciated. :-)

Emily: As far as making a pdf, I certainly intend to do that and to make it available online. If that counts as publishing, then it shall indeed be published. I guess what I really meant was more than I have no plans to attempt to publish it in order to make money.

Thanks everyone,
David

[Kit]

Change of plan. Insomnia has struck, and I'd quite like to get this written, so I'm going to write it up now and should post it here in about half an hour or so.

[Kit]

What is Option?

In a lot of ways, Option is a traditional RPG. It doesn't play with revolutionary new ideas such as those discussed here on The Forge. For example it's not troupe based. It's a classic GM + players approach. The GM is a touch less god-like than in some games, but this is really a detail rather than a fundamental underlying difference. Still, I feel it has some important things to offer.

Firstly, Option is a universal system. It is supposed to be able to handle any genre, and world. This is of course a lie, but like most lies it contains a glimmer of truth. More than a glimmer really: Option is designed to be able to handle a very large range of genres and settings. There are of course some things it just can't handle.

What Option is not is a generic system. It does not handle every style of play, and makes no pretence at doing so. You want to play comic book style superheros in Option? You're mad. Option would almost certainly snap like a dry twig beneath the burden of trying this. High fantasy hack and slash sword and sorcery? Eh. Maybe. It's probably not the ideal system for it though. Option is designed for a reasonable range of styles of play, but it definitely is not without a strong bias on this front.

So that's what Option isn't. Now, what is it, and why is it different from say... GURPS?

I know I'm not supposed to mention mechanics, but one of the basic ideas of Option is mechanical, and it permeates enough of the philosophy and direction that it really does need mentioning: A character is described by what he or she can do, and how well they do it.

So, this becomes the basic question you ask yourself about your character in Option: What can she do? The game is really about exploring your character's potential and how she interacts with the world around her.

(Side note: Given this I suppose the game would be classed as Simulationist. I'm not entirely sure I buy into the GNS model, and I know for a fact I don't yet properly understand it. This is really an observation I'm making after the fact and isn't being used as a guiding design principle).

The game is structured around this. Given a situation you can interact with it in various ways, and you should have a good and fairly immediate idea of how well your character can perform in each of these ways. Your character finds himself studying a crashed alien space ship? Well, he's really a biothaumaturge, but as such he's got a bit of a background in general science and has studied some mechanics. Really he'd be better off having a closer look at those bodies... On the other hand, given a bit of trial and error and a good couple of books he might be able to figure out some of this stuff. He's hardly a complete amateur after all.

The way characters develop throughout play reflects this. As they practice their abilities, they learn and improve. Practice and experience help them develop their full potential. Improvement reflects a fairly organic and real world style of learning: When you're new and untrained you really need to study to learn, but once you've got some experience under your belt you can manage to work with this on your own, which gives you experience in it and helps you improve.

On a reread, I'm not entirely satisfied this, but I don't see how to improve it or what else I should be including right now. S'what I get for writing after midnight.

If you have specific questions about themes, etc. that I haven't properly answered. Please ask them. What I have thought to write down may not correspond all that well to the information you want, and definitely doesn't correspond to the information I have available if I think about the right things.

I don't know how much longer I'll be up, but if I don't respond this morning (probably this evening for most of you) then I shall be sure to do so tomorrow.