[Ganakagok] Best gaming experience at DexCon

[Rob Donoghue]

"Do they catch me?"  I could have responded, "But we know they're not going to catch you in time, which means what's at stake is whether or not what you're doing is the right thing--and that's Soul."  Should I have done that?  And should I encourage that in the rules write-up?

Well, here's the terrible cheat - I think you made the right call, but I think it mostly worked because I think everyone at the table was pretty well in sync regarding what was a good outcome.  Put another way, I was _absolutely_ abusing the system, but I did it in a way that (I think) was satisfyign to everyone.  So that Kind of makes it hard to answer.

I'm finding myself likign the 1/2-3/4-5/6 model a lot, withthe kicker being what you do for stats.  I think the reroll idea has soem merit, but I woudl also consider some other things:

1) Stats already matter a lot regarding the stuff you start the game with (And speakign of which, Accomplishments - albeit with a cooler name - might be a more compelling option for Body) and just pitchign the stats as "pools" could cover a lot of that.

2) On some level, I want the stat to _add_ dice, if you are effectively "staking" them on a conflict.  The thing I walked away from was really a sense that bigger die pools mean more interesting struggles, and soem means to make the pools bigger would be welcome.  This creates the interesting possibility of a conflict being framed withotu the merits of stats, but then the player needing to justify the applicability of a stat, with GM approval, or crazier still, the player framing it in terms of a stat, and the GM complicating it in terms of another stat.  This means bigger dice pools, but that's desirable, since it makes it harder to predict victory.

Anyway, just chewing for the moment.

-Rob D.

[Bill_White]

I'm thinking that if we adopt 1/2-3/4-5/6 as the standard, then the four stats aren't really needed anymore.  Rather than struggle to come up with a way to keep them, what do people think about dropping them?

On the other hand, I like the idea of having a pool of points to provide additional dice to a roll to increase its consequentiality.

What if you could use mana to add dice to a roll, based on the idea that the character is imbuing his action with mystical or religious significance?  This would have the nice effect of distinguishing mana from lore mechanically, and of encouraging people to use mana (which otherwise tends to get hoarded, I think).

Bill

[Andrew Morris]

First, I don't agree (nor do I disagree, however) that 5s need to be "fixed," based on my actual play experiences. That decision is up to Bill, of course, but I'd like to see more actual play experiences that mirror Rob's, before such a significant change was made.

Putting that issue aside, I'd rather see some altering of how stats work, or limiting their range, before they were removed from the game entirely, simply because they allow the players to better define their characters. Without stats, all characters are mechanically the same, apart from their belongings, relationships, stories they know, and magic.

[Shawn De Arment]

I like the stats and would like to keep them. I agree with Andrew, they help distinguish the characters from one another.

I like Rob's idea of stat pools adding dice to conflicts. It changes a stat from how good you are to how important it is to your story. I could see Lame Fisherman with a 5 in body with stat pools.

In both the games I played, I used Ancestor mana. I didn't like Star and Sun mana (though the new rules in the second game made them more desirable) for either character concept. I never understood Ancient Ones mana, and in the second game you dropped it.

I think you just have to fiddle with mana. If mana added to the dice pool, or maybe was burned to allowed re-rolls, people would use it more.

[Andrew Morris]

I like Rob's idea of stat pools adding dice to conflicts. It changes a stat from how good you are to how important it is to your story.

Yeah, I actually like this, as well. I just wouldn't want to lose the character customization element.

[Bill_White]

Yeah, you've convinced me:  stats stay.

How does this sound:  stats give you a pool of die mods to use when you act, or when you're the object of someone else's action (as when Rob B.'s mad boatman in the second game was trying to stop Ben's far traveler from building all those boats).  Just like any other gift, though, you have to describe what you're doing or how the attribute helps you.  In addition, you can "burn" a point of stat to add a die to the current roll (using "1s" to replenish the stat just like any other Gift).

This makes stats matter during intercharacter conflicts in a way that they don't now, and incorporates Rob D.'s idea about using them to add dice.  It also preserves to some degree Shawn's preference that stats reflect how important a particular domain of action is to your character, rather than how good you are at it:  a lame fisherman could use the die mods to describe overcoming his handicap, or add dice if he's trying to do something really hard (and thus really meaningful) to him.

Bill

[Andrew Morris]

Sounds good to me, but as I've said many times, I'm terrible at extrapolating what specific mechanics will look like in play. I'd have to try it out to say for sure. I'd really like to know what Rob D. thinks, since he's the one who had the greatest problem with 5 stats in the first place. This seems like it would address his concerns, but I'm not sure.

[Rob Donoghue]

I think it sounds pretty solid, with my only concern being that the differentiation between stats and anything else is greatly weakened.  Thing is, I really can't say if that's a good or bad thing, since there's some strogn cool potential either way.

-Rob D.

[Andrew Morris]

Thing is, I really can't say if that's a good or bad thing, since there's some strogn cool potential either way.

Ditto. Another point, which I just remembered (which might be a good or bad thing) is how Gifts are initially awarded at character creation. It seemed odd to me that my 5 Soul shaman only had two Mana to start with. I traded with another player to increase that, though. Maybe this makes characters more interesting. Perhaps the revised version of the stats can play into this somehow (e.g. a 5 Soul gives you 5 Mana at character creation, or something).