What are your views on the D6 system?

[Dan R. Stevenson]

The title pretty much sums it up. What do think of the D6 system by Westend Games? I was thinking of acquiring it for sci-fi fantasy game I am working on.

[Vaxalon]

It doesn't do anything that some other ruleset does better.  That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it.

[Selene Tan]

Hello, and welcome to the Forge!

Right now, you haven't given us enough information to be helpful to you. What do you need for your sci-fi fantasy game? What are you trying to focus on? What will the characters do? What will the players do? Without knowing the answers to those questions, nobody can tell whether or not the D6 system will work for your game. Of course, Vaxalon makes a good point, too...

Also, opinion polls are frowned upon at the Forge. The main reason is that they're usually not very helpful.

[gsoylent]

I like D6. It was an innovative system in its day, possibly one of the first systems designed specically for a cinematic style of play (which is probably no coincidence as most WEG games were movie tie-ins). 

* It was very simple, elegant core mechanic.

*  It had a good way of deal with characters taking damage.
   - no hit points
   - characters get weaker the more hurt they get hurt
   - characters tend to go unconscious rather than die

*  It had a built in way to deal with multiple tasks

*  It had a meta-game tools (Fate/Force points and Skill points) to give players more control on their dice rolls.

We may take a lot of these things for granted now, but all in all it was pretty revolutionary at the time.

As for its weakness, I'd would say it quickly breaks at higher levels and it does not really come with a whole lot of chunky bits (as in huge, comprehensive spell/power lists and tons of equipment). Personally that is not an issue for me, but for some players levelling up and the chunky bits are the defining aspect of a game.

You might also want to look at FUDGE and Savage Worlds who capture the same kind of play style as D6.

[Eric J.]

Welcome to the Forge!

I'm interested in why you like D6 and your experiences with it.

What are you trying to do?

What makes you think that D6 can help you with that?

A lot has been done with the D6 system.  It's been adapted for all sorts of titles and one interesting rendition is the Isis system that adds some 'crunchy bits.'

May the wind be always at your back,
-Pyron

[Dan R. Stevenson]

(I'm interested in why you like D6 and your experiences with it.)

I love how the game flows and its ease of use. I can run an entire campaign and only look at the rulebook once or twice.

(What are you trying to do?)

Sci-fi fantasy espionage.

(What makes you think that D6 can help you with that?)

It will allow for very rapid gun and space battles.

Thanks,

Dan R. Stevenson

[Matt Wilson]

Hey Dan:

My view of the D6 System, perhaps a harsh one, sorry.

1) It looks like half a dozen other generic systems out there, and it shows its age. There's no longer anything to the game that's new and fresh. It's been copied to death, and the copies are often better.

2) Despite its use as a vehicle for Star Wars, it's not a very heroic system. Roll initiative, roll to hit, roll damage. That's three times per round my character has to avoid failure in order to do something cool. Screw that. Newer games have figured out how to do that faster and better.

3) Too much association with Star Wars. First I'll compare your setting with Star Wars, then I'll think, why not just play Star Wars? Then I'll find a better system to play Star Wars with.

4) Not worth anyone's time or money to pay for a license. I can make up a whole new system that's at least that good, and if I can, so can you.

[gsoylent]

4) Not worth anyone's time or money to pay for a license. I can make up a whole new system that's at least that good, and if I can, so can you.

Maybe, but as a casual consumer I may look more favourably towards a game that uses the D6 system than some unknown "just as good system". D6 works well enough for a certain type of game and having to learn (and teach) a new system,  which may or may not work when put ot the test, is not something I relish. So for me (and maybe just me) the comfort factor of it being a D6 game is worth quite a bit. YMMV.

I figure this is probably not a popular view in a game designer forum...

[Eric Provost]

I don't think our opinions on the D6 system really matter here.  Much more important is your opinion on the system.  Is it the best possible system for your game?  If it is and you believe that the purchase of the licence is a sound decision then you should go for it.

Of course most people here will think it's not a sound business decision.  After all, this site is all about doing it yourself, from the ground up.  Personally I think you'd be painting yourself into a really tight corner.  After all, you'd be talking about marketing to a really small niche of the market.  Namely fans of the D6 system who are looking for a way to impliment it for scifi-fantasy-espionage games but yet don't believe that they are capable of converting their existing books themselves or are just unwilling to spend the time and energy to convert it.  Seems pretty darned narrow to me.

But hey, whadda I know?  People buy tap water in bottles and d20 crap by the truckload.

-Eric

[Dan R. Stevenson]

What are other systems out there besides D6, D20 or fudge that work well for sci-fi fantasy? I suck at designing new game systems.

[rafial]

You might take a look at Savage Worlds.

[Eric Provost]

Heh.  Now you're wading into deep waters.

By the way, I never said welcome.  So, welcome to the Forge.

Now, here's the thing.  I can't answer that question really.  Because it's really hard to define "works well" when talking about something as wide open as sci-fantasy.  Even sci-fantasy espionage.  Still really wide open.  

But I'll wager a single opinion.  d20 does killing things well.  It occationally successfully covers other forms of challenges, but not very often.  I don't know D6 and Fudge that well but I'd willing to make a cash bet that they also do killing things well.  Mostly because that's what most games focus on.  Killing things that is.

So, if you're looking for a game where espionage is the focus in a sci-fantasy setting... Well, I think that what you might look for is something that either handles espionage specifically (I don't know if that exists yet) or something that has a pretty solid all-encompassing Conflict Resolution system.  The only thing that pops to mind immediately is The Pool.  I've never played it myself but there are plenty of fans for it around here that could tell you all about it.  In fact, I know that someone just posted a link to it.  Unfortunately my search-fu sucks and I can't seem to get the Resource Library to do any tricks for me.

I feel bad that I can't seem to find that darn link but I feel pretty confident that some fan will show up and throw you a link.

-Eric

[Bankuei]

Hi Dan,

Along with the rest of the gang- welcome to the Forge!

The first question, the real question you need to ask yourself is why are you working on this game?  If you're working on it, and serious about sharing it with others- what is it that is sparking your game idea that you feel needs to be shared?  Or, very pointedly- What is special about your game?

Since you haven't even settled on what you want to do system-wise, I suspect the core concept of your game might not be fleshed out yet.  Without that- any other work other than general color isn't going to be of much use- like trying to build the roof before the foundation of a house.  If you think "any system could do", it's also like having a script that you don't care who directs it... not a good sign.

A really good thing to look at is the Structured Game Design sticky at the top of the Indie Game Design forum, here:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1896.0

You can see how Roy writes out what gameplay is supposed to be like, and uses that as a blueprint.  That's a good thing to focus on- how you imagine play working without necessarily worrying about what the mechanics do just yet.

Also, and even more importantly- try playing a lot of different games.  If you're not sure what system would work, or things you want out of a system, you may not have had too much experience with many different systems.  Here's three games that are available online for free, that you might want to look at as examples of different ways in which systems can work, all of which are pretty non-standard and might get you thinking about systems that might really support what you're looking for.

http://www.anvilwerks.com/?The-Shadow-of-Yesterday
http://www.randomordercreations.com/thepool.htm  (You may have to scroll down)
http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/Legends_of_Middle_Earth_Free_RPG.php

Chris

[Gordon C. Landis]

Dan,

As folks have said, welcome to the Forge, and hopefully there's something(s)/someone(s) here that can help you out with your game (I'm personally sure there is, but hey, I've been wrong before).  I'm going to take a bit more of a hardball approach, and point out something that looks to me like a flat-out impossibility in your posts: saying that you suck at designing new game systems, and simultaneously saying that you're working on a game, just doesn't make sense.

Let me check on one thing first, though: are you talking about designing a game, or picking a system to use in a particular campaign with your friends?  In either case, RPG Theory is probably the wrong place for this thread.  I'm not a moderator, but it seems like if we're talking about a game you intend to design and publish (see the sticky in Indie Game Design for more on what the Forge means by "publish" - it doesn't have to mean you're going to print 10,000 copies and try and get them into game stores), all the questions here about what you want this game to be and what you see as special about it need to be answered in a post over in Indie Game Design.  The D6 system issues could then be looked at in that context.  And if it's a game you want to play with your group, a post about what you're looking to do as far as preparation and system-decisions might fit in Actual Play, as long as you and your group are really committed to, well, actually playing the game.  D6 stuff could then naturally come up in that discussion.  But that's just my thoughts, and as I said, I'm not a moderator here.

So back to that impossibility: if you're talking about designing a game, you must be talking about designing a system.  Even if you're using someone else's system mechanics, your game must apply them in some (at least) slightly different way.  Otherwise, there is absolutely nothing to distinguish your game from that "system"-game.

Reading the Articles section of the site will help you a lot with how we think about "system" here, and why I claim that you gotta be designing a system if you're designing a game at all.

That's about all I can think to say at the moment - hope at least some of it made sense to you,