[DitV] Mormonism and drugs

[Larry L.]

So, as I understand it, Mormonism has a complete taboo on drugs, including "smart drugs" like caffeine.

And drugs, of course, are bad because they alter your judgment.

Gamers routinely drink stimulants, as do the majority of western "head workers." It's a little extra edge that makes your mind that much sharper. Hell, I spend upwards of twenty dollars a week on my coffee habit. I figure it pays for itself in productivity.

And I've never really thought about it this way before, but maybe, in the context of Dogs, smart people judgment ain't quite what the King of Life intended. (This would certainly explain a lot of anti-intellectualism.) Maybe trying to get more sharpness than your Creator gave you smacks of sin -- or hubris, to use the edumacated word. Even if you are a Dog.

What I'm getting at... Is it okay for the players to play Dogs under the influence of drugs? (i.e. caffeinated beverages) The con I see is, "Use what judgin' your Maker gave ya." The pro I see is, dogs are chosen for their special gift for judgin', i.e. they're smart people like us as opposed to the bulk of the flock.

Vincent? Anybody?

[Adam Dray]

Is it okay for the players to play Dogs under the influence of drugs? (i.e. caffeinated beverages)

Are you asking if it's okay for the players to play characters who are under the influence of drugs, like coffee?
Or are you asking if it's okay for the players to play the game while they themselves are drinking coffee and soda?

If you mean the latter, my answer is "Why the hell not?"

[Meguey]

Well, since you titled the thread 'Mormonism and drugs', I'll answer from that angle. In the pre-statehood, pre-gold rush Utah part of Mormon history, it is fact that alcohol, tobacco, and coffee were used by many members of the early LDS. The 'dietary laws' came into place after the arrival of non-Mormons. So, for Dogs, it makes sense they might, or might not, use such things, as you see fit in your game. I agree with Adam that the players should be free to drink whatever they like while playing, unless maybe you're doing a DitV LARP, and other concerns come to bear.

[TonyLB]

Hey, if'n a Dog says "Coffee's alright in this situation" then coffee is alright in that situation.

So:  are drugs alright with the King of Life?  How should I know?  I'm not your players.  Your players are the people with the answer relevant to your game.

[Larry L.]

I said "players."

Can I drink vodka while playing Dogs? Can I smoke pot while playing Dogs? That's basically the kind of question I'm asking. Of course I can, if that's kosher by social contract. But should I? Maybe I'm just thinking really "method" here.

As Tony points out, that's really a question only an individual dog can answer for himself.

[Vaxalon]

I've played that way in the past... attempted to immerse myself in the character... wasn't any more fun than just playing it.  Given that Dogs can get into some hairy emotional pain, and since I like having FUN, I wouldn't recommend that for DiTV.

[lumpley]

I like drinking a beer while playing Dogs A LOT.

But maybe I'm a special case.

-Vincent

[Brand_Robins]

I don't drink, cause I'm a good Mormon. So I don't drink while playing Dogs.

I do however swear like a sailor, because I'm a bad Mormon. So I do swear like a sailor while playing Dogs.




(I'd also note, to be a picky bitch, that caffine is not techincally a violation of the Word of the Wisdom -- that's how many church members interpret it, but it's their interpretation and not "canon law."  If it was my old Elder's Quorum presidency would have been in real trouble for the amount of Coke we drank. (As it was we mostly just got told off for my constant swearing.)

[Larry L.]

For what it's worth, I imbibed an iced latte and a Coke on the way to the game yesterday.

If'n Vincent drinks beer when playing, then I reckon' the whole question is moot.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Are you asking if the in-game social rules of Dogs in the Vineyard should be followed by the players?

The rules that say it's OK to drag someone out into the street by the hair and shoot them in the eye for causing a social concern, based on the judgement of a person who says it's OK because God told them the guy summoned demons?

I dunno, man. That seems crazy.

[lumpley]

Wow, Brand. You come from a different part of the church than I do! In my old Elders' Quorum, didn't anybody drink Coke or swear at all. Even made-up swears like "fetch" (as in "I can't believe he drank a fetchin' Coke") were considered too vulgar.

But that was in Provo and Palmyra, so what do you expect. We were a bunch of pious, self-righteous bastards.

By my reading, the Word of Wisdom itself is just fine with beer. Banning beer is clearly a later development.

Oh, here's an interesting tidbit I read somewhere. In the early 20th century, a lot of the remaining polygamist Mormons went to Mexico, right? As they've returned to Utah and integrated (to whatever extent) in Mormon society, they've brought back with them a taste for marijuana, and they justify it out of the Word of Wisdom:

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

Yes, Utah has a thriving underground pot scene. Whoda thunk! It's even linked to the old grand radical pedigree - polygamy, blood atonement, folk magic & miracles, the active war with Satan, direct divine guidance - that's inspired Dogs.

So getting stoned before you play may be more "method" than you'd figure.

Oh, and Larry?

The pro I see is, dogs are chosen for their special gift for judgin', i.e. they're smart people like us as opposed to the bulk of the flock.

Bite me.

Dogs are chosen for their willingness to serve.

-Vincent

[Larry L.]

No, Joshua, that's totally not what I'm asking. Also, I do not plan to wear a thick woolen coat to the game.

Just musing about the effects of drugs upon judgment, Dogs offering an unusual take on what "drugs" are.

And there's an easy, thematically related, opportunity to experiment with drugs, or in this case their absence. But, uh, apparently no one else sees the awesome in this...

Did I mention I quit smoking a couple weeks back?

Brand, it is good to know I am probably blowing that whole dietary prohibition way out of proportion.

Vincent, I'll consider myself bitten.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

No, Joshua, that's totally not what I'm asking. Also, I do not plan to wear a thick woolen coat to the game.

That's a badge of office, not a moral stricture. You're talking about moral stricture like "Don't kill people".

Just musing about the effects of drugs upon judgment, Dogs offering an unusual take on what "drugs" are.

And there's an easy, thematically related, opportunity to experiment with drugs, or in this case their absence. But, uh, apparently no one else sees the awesome in this...

I love a good game of Dogs in the Vineyard in part because I find the religion abhorrent and simple.

Did I mention I quit smoking a couple weeks back?

Ah, dig, then the game is a way to confront your own issues. Mazal tov, yasha koach! That sounds like you've gotta play some towns with that as an issue. All the good stuff comes from the play, not the book that tells you how to do it.

[Brand_Robins]

Wow, Brand. You come from a different part of the church than I do!

I was born in Provo, but luckily have no memory of it. My formative years were in Houston, Los Angeles, and Toronto -- all of which are a different world of LDSness. We call your old ward folks "Utah Mormons" and are afraid of them. ;)

And we did get told off about made up swears, because it was the intent that was important. To which I responded "well then I'll just damn well say the real thing from now on."

I made my EQ president cry that day. ::singing:: But nothing could be done, because I was the bishop's son....::/singing::

Yes, Utah has a thriving underground pot scene.

I had a bishop in an LA ward once tell me that he firmly believed that every single youth of the Stake had done MJ at least once, and that many of them got it from their folks -- many of whom were otherwise good saints. (And I mean that from my perspective, as well as that of the church. Good folks who liked em some weed.)

Now, if'n we'd had Dogs to come a callin, my swearing and their smoking mighta gotten fixed up right quick. After all saying "damn damn fuck damn" isn't worth a bullet in the head....

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

I made my EQ president cry that day.

Ha ha! She was broken and you showed her!