Is a Good Town a Good Idea?

[dunlaing]

The point is, I've got this town where I'm doing my best not to have Pride be there at all.

One thing that strikes me about the discussion that followed is that it seems impossible to create a town without at least Pride. Lisa mentions not wanting the town to even have Pride, but even in her description of the town, it reads like there's both Pride and Injustice. It just hasn't led to Sin yet (arguably). I think it would be hard to come up with a town that seems at all like a real place without at least Pride. I'm not as certain that you can't come up with a realistic town without Injustice, but my gut says you can't do it.

I mean, even Utopia seemed a bit Prideful to me. And that's not meant to be realistic.

[Danny_K]

I think it's a very interesting idea, and I'd purely love to see some Actual Play about it. 

It occurs to me that a low-key town like this might be perfect for some groups, especially if it tied into the themes of that game.  For example, if the Good Town is the hometown of one of the Dogs and they're going there for a little home cooking and to heal up after a nasty fight, that would immediately raise the stakes for the players (and bring a lot of relationships and maybe Accomplishments) into play. 

Another "hook" I thought of is to have the Dogs have a specific agenda going into this town. For example, a Dog from Good Town died recently trying to save a wagonload of pilgrims from a flash flood.  They never found the body, all that remains is his colorful coat, which he laid on the riverbank before diving in.  The PC's are given the awkward task of returning the coat and saying a few words to the missing Dog's parents.  So have them go in there with that job, and then  have the conflict with the tomboyish girl present itself, and the option of having her become a Dog is not so uncontroversial any more.  I think you'd have to be careful as a GM to not force the players' hands, but just add the business with the coat into the mix and then see how things play out as they do in any other town. 

[Neal]

One thing that strikes me about the discussion that followed is that it seems impossible to create a town without at least Pride. Lisa mentions not wanting the town to even have Pride, but even in her description of the town, it reads like there's both Pride and Injustice.

I agree that it's very difficult to think of a town without Pride.  Thinking of humans at all without thinking about Pride is difficult.  Self-interest is a very real part of what we are, I think.  But in DitV, it's the enactment of Pride that produces Injustice.  Someone (or more likely, a lot of someones) may feel he isn't getting his due, or someone may feel her way of looking at something is better than that of an authority figure (father, mother, Steward, etc.).  But it's when they turn that opinion into action that Injustice results.

I agree that Lisa's town already has Pride and Injustice, however low-profile.  I think maybe it's just a matter of terminology that keeps her from seeing it that way.  I don't know; only she can answer that with certainty.

But I also keep coming back to an idea that a town without visible Injustice, a town without Sin, is a town hovering in a web of barely-contained conflict.  An absence of Sin certainly doesn't signal an absence of self-interest or self-importance, even narcissism.  It's just that it hasn't erupted yet into acts of blatant wrongness.  There's a kind of tremulous equilibrium, like a glass of water set too close to the edge of a table.

Here's a theory for you.  People need conflict.  They seek it out, even.  And when they can't find it, they invent it.  If there isn't someone running around through the town, shooting out windows and calling for the overthrow of the Faith, then we'll settle for the neighbor who lets his dog run through our turnips because he's too lazy to chain the beast up.  We'll settle for the old woman who picks her nose in public.  We'll settle for peevish disagreements with the way Brother Jonas raises his voice to his old dray on a Sunday morning.  In the absence of large conflicts, little things begin to inflate themselves until a town either develops full-scale problems, or its peace of mind is kicked to death by crickets.  (Or, of course, the Steward could bring things into perspective and calm the whole place down.  But where's the fun in that?)

The question, of course, is whether these little things are the province of the Dogs, or whether they should be attended by the Steward.  As Vincent points out, it is the Steward's job to tend to his branch.  The Dogs shouldn't have to do his job for him.  So when they are obliged to do so, it probably says something about the competence of that Steward.

Another way to deal with Lisa's example, I think, is to imagine that Sister Sarah is not as contrite as even she believes herself to be.  She's been counseled by the Steward.  She's heard her father's advice.  But the lure of crossing that gender line is like a strong magnet, and she can't resist it.  Maybe it really is a Calling (but then, why hasn't the Steward recognized it?).  Or maybe it's just a weak will, and a growing (and dangerous) willingness to abide a level of spiritual discomfort, knowing she's doing wrong but refusing, in her heart, to mend her ways.  "As the dog returneth to his vomit, so the fool to his folly."

[Lance D. Allen]

The question, of course, is whether these little things are the province of the Dogs, or whether they should be attended by the Steward.  As Vincent points out, it is the Steward's job to tend to his branch.  The Dogs shouldn't have to do his job for him.  So when they are obliged to do so, it probably says something about the competence of that Steward.

I can't help but wonder why the Dogs wouldn't deal with this, one way or t'other. I mean.. it's not like Dogs are dispatched to a town specifically to deal with it's problems. Their main responsibilities are to deliver mail, news (including new interpretations of scripture, etc.) and just generally be celebrity priests.. Even in towns that you'd pass over, people will probably approach the Dogs with "problems" that their Steward could easily handle if they'd brought it to him, but there's a certain thrill in having a Dog suss you out (subtle pride, perhaps? Your problem is too important for a mere Branch Steward...) or perhaps you're too embarassed, and an outsider might be able to resolve the problem without it becoming the town's gossip for the next year.

So what if the Steward could handle it? The Dogs might simply admonish the flock, reminding them that their Steward is the shepherd of their community. Or they might admonish the Steward for not having seen it and taken care of it himself.. Or they may simply handle it themselves, depending on the nature of the problem, and their own takes on it.

The way I see it, there are plenty of opportunities for hard and meaningful decisions in a "good" town, though I'll agree that Town Creation handles the low-key just as well as the sin-ridden.

My question though is whether or not Lisa has what she wanted from this thread. Unless I've missed it, she's not posted recently, so perhaps she's got her answers? If she's not yet satisfied, is there anything we might do to steer this back toward her initial goals?

[dunlaing]

I remember reading X-Men comics as a kid. Usually, the X-Men were fighting bad guys and things were hectic and there was bad stuff going down. Every now and then, though, you got an issue where they were playing baseball.

If you can run a "good town" as a change of pace, and maybe as a way to relieve some tension, it might be a good idea.

[Neal]

I can't help but wonder why the Dogs wouldn't deal with this, one way or t'other. I mean.. it's not like Dogs are dispatched to a town specifically to deal with it's problems. Their main responsibilities are to deliver mail, news (including new interpretations of scripture, etc.) and just generally be celebrity priests.. Even in towns that you'd pass over, people will probably approach the Dogs with "problems" that their Steward could easily handle if they'd brought it to him, but there's a certain thrill in having a Dog suss you out (subtle pride, perhaps? Your problem is too important for a mere Branch Steward...) or perhaps you're too embarassed, and an outsider might be able to resolve the problem without it becoming the town's gossip for the next year.

I thought about this, too.  I can envision a young Steward, new to his Calling and still earning the confidence of his branch.  I can also envision an older Steward whose judgments have been issued so often, they become predictable.  Better yet, why not employ the psychology of children?  When you already know what Daddy's going to say, do you bother to ask him?  No, you go to Mommy instead.  Any of these reasons, and many more, could explain why the chain of command has broken down (or is just a bit flimsy yet).

[Tindalos]

Hmmm I may have to try to write up a town that starts with the Pride "Only a Dog is good enough to fix *my* problems".

Interesting...

[lumpley]

Good call, Lance.

Please nobody post to this thread until we've heard back from Lisa. Lisa?

-Vincent