Relationships with Belongings?

[Neal]

Has anyone here discussed a character's relationships to his or her belongings?  I mean relationships as in Relationships.  I'm not advocating, mind you; just asking.  I don't see in the rules where it's either endorsed or prohibited.  The rules mention Relationships with People, Sins, Institutions, Places, Demons.  How about the stuff Dogs lug around?

I'm trying to work through the concept right now, and I can see some benefits to this.  For example, say a  character has an heirloom rifle, a really fine smoothbore carbine handed down to him from his late grandfather.  He cherishes the thing, adores it, treats it like a pet.  Sounds like a Relationship to me.  Sure, you could say "It's a Trait: I always shoot better when I've got my granddad's old carbine: 1d8."  You could also say "It's just an aspect of the Belonging: Paw-paw's excellent old carbine, handed down to me before he died: 2d6 1d4."  But neither of those really captures the love the character has for that gun, which is only partly a reinvested love for his grandfather.

Likewise, couldn't a character develop a relationship with her horse, getting to know it well, its like and dislikes, its tricks and foibles, that sort of thing.  That would permit the character to bring Relationship dice into a conflict where she is urging the horse to perform beyond its usual limits.   I know some might say this is just a specialized horsemanship Trait, or it's something to do with having an excellent horse.  But having raised and trained a few horses myself, I know there's a difference between being a good horseman, and knowing a horse really well.  (And besides, I like horses with personalities and riders with attachments to their horses.)

The same thing could apply to other special Belongings, from a cherished and well-thumbed old Book of Life to "the skinning knife I used on Quentin Hardisty the night he killed Jenny Baker."  Some are probably more legitimate as Relationships than others.  I am not sure where I would draw a line, or why a line should be drawn at all, but I'm open to suggestions.

What do you think?  Is this already covered, and I'm just missing it?  Has anyone tried it?  Why or why not?

[lumpley]

Well, it clearly depends on whether the belonging's a person or furniture, right? You can only have relationships with people.

-Vincent
reference: Ron Edwards in First Question -- Resolution Without People

[Neal]

That's what I thought, too, Vincent.  That's why I chose the examples I chose.  I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a reason why it might be a bad idea.

So, when Brother Lemuel whips out his Paw-paw's old smoothbore, he's not only getting the dice for the gun, but also for the special Relationship he has with the gun.  Sounds good to me.

[Vaxalon]

There's also a difference between SAYING that your character interacts with a particular belonging, and actually having it show up in actual play.

[lumpley]

So, when Brother Lemuel whips out his Paw-paw's old smoothbore, he's not only getting the dice for the gun, but also for the special Relationship he has with the gun. Sounds good to me.

Uh... well, not in my game. He gets his relationship dice when the gun's his enemy or the gun's what's at stake. When he brings the gun in as part of a see or raise, he gets its belonging dice OR its relationship dice, as here.

But I want to say, this is an extremely small, very technical issue, without much potential for disrupting play no matter how you play it. If you're asking out of idle curiousity or to test your understanding of the rules in principle, the really truly answer is "whatever, who cares." If you're asking because it came up, the really truly answer is "follow your group's lead."

-Vincent

[Neal]

Yeah, Vincent, I don't figure it will come up all that often, and when it does, I'll probably be inclined to follow whichever practice makes for a more exciting conflict, and then stick with that practice throughout.  I have to say I do like the idea that a gun (or horse, or bible, or whatever) is of more use to the person who is deeply familiar with it and attached to it in a personal way.  But we'll see how it shakes out.

Heh, I just got a crazy idea about a character who's toting around the crappiest old pepperbox revolver anyone's ever seen, and he hates it -- really hates it with a seething passion.  But he's determined to make the damn thing do its job.  He's assigned relationship dice to this crappy gun, so when it comes into play, it's "Relationship: My damned old rusty pepperbox: 2d8."  2d8 ain't bad for a crap gun.

[Lance D. Allen]

Just as a data point:

In my group, we had a character, Br. Raven, with a possession: Dog, 2d8, I believe.

About.. 3rd town in, Thaddeus was rescued/injured by Dog, when he was knocked out of the way of a falling tree, but broke his hip in the process. As part of his fallout, he gained a relationship, 1d4 with Dog.

So Raven owned a dog he didn't have a relationship with, and Thaddeus had a relationship with a dog he didn't own.

And it was good.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

"Big, excellent hair: 2d8"

I can't remember if it was a Relationship or a Possession in the end, though we debated the merits of both.

[Neal]

Now if we could only combine Lance and Joshua's situations...

On his go, Brother Nimrod raises: "Man, I'm purty.  I've got to put a stop to this fight before it spoils the part in my big, excellent hair."  He brings in his hair as a Belonging, gaining 2d8.

On his go, Brother Balaam raises: "I've been deeply attached to Brother Nimrod's hair for some time now.  It seems so much more important than Nimrod himself, as it lights my way through the night and makes every day a brighter, larger, more excellent thing.  It is perhaps the one orderly thing in a disorderly world, proof in itself that there is a methodical, caring God.  I care a lot about what happens to that hair.  Now I see it threatened, and my eyes go red with rage."  He brings in Brother Nimrod's hair as a Relationship, and the fight is suddenly all about the hair.

Or... you know... maybe not.

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On a side note (sort of):

My own group just created characters this past Tuesday.  I wish I could offer all kinds of fascinating character-creation stories, but it was pretty tame and by-the-numbers, though no less fun for being so.  It did take a while for these veteran gamers to get comfortable with the versatility and freedom of DitV character creation.  I kept having to remind them occasionally that Traits weren't necessarily the same things as Skills, that Relationships weren't the same thing as Contacts.  So most of the choices they made were fairly safe. 

However, I did have one player choose a Relationship with a Belonging right at the outset.  He was trying to get a handle on the Belongings quality ratings, and said something along the lines of "Well, my grandpa's bible's got all my sister's birthdays and stuff in it, and it just... like... I don't know, falls right open to where he used to read from it.  When I pick it up, I can feel my grandpa's scratchy old voice, and feel his power going through me.  But, I mean, it's not a blessed bible or anything, and it's kind of getting old and starting to fall apart.  Would that be crap, excellent, or just normal?"  I grinned and replied, "Sounds excellent to me, but there is another option..."  He ended up declaring it as a Relationship because it carried so much of his family's history and personality in it that it seemed almost like an advisor instead of a reference book.