[DitV] A couple of Questions

[two_fishes]

Hi,

Last week I ran Walnut Hollow Branch. Here's a link to the version I posted on the forum:

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=17254.0

I ran the town pretty much as written. I made Finn unequivocally a murderer (he hit Bridget with a rock), repentant though he was; I jettisoned his folks and made his want for the Dogs to take him with them to Bridal Falls; and I gave Bridget a want, to see Finn suffer for his sin.

The town went well but there's a couple of rough spot in play that I've encountered. I wonder if maybe we're playing this out wrong.

The big hump seems to be when everyone's just talking. The Dogs tend to team up against whoever their talking with* so the play tends to look like:

I raise, affecting all Dogs.

Dog A sees.

Dog B sees.

Dog C sees.

Dog A raises, I see.

Dog B raises, I see.

Dog C raises, I see.

I raise, and repeat.

After even just one round of this, it gets a little repetitive, especially when the players are seeing--they each have to narrate some kind of response, right? I ruled that the Dogs can agree with each other for their sees rather than each one coming up with a new block or dodge, but is that right? (They all have to show their dice, though). Also, it doesn't work so well when Dog A reverses and Dog C has to take the blow.

The pattern isn't so bad when things've escalated. Then every Dog can say, well, I do this, or I do that, and I can target my raises to specific Dogs, as appropriate. But when we're just talking, everyone's affected by default right? I mean, as long as they're opposing whoever's making the raise.

My other question has to do with crowds and when the Dogs are faced with >1 NPCs. In this case the Dogs confronted a crowd headed by a Sorcerer. How should the dice be handled? Do I roll two seperate pools, one for the crowd and one for the Sorcerer and make seperate raises for each? Do I roll them all together in one big pool and get one raise for the big group? Do I roll dice just for the Sorcerer and give him a crowd trait? (The last is what I did.)



* I'm trying to throw good divisive problems at them but so far they're sticking together. It's a new group, though, so we're all pretty much strangers to each other--things might get a little better once everyone's a little more comfortable with each other. And next game I'm gonna be able to pluck things from their character sheets and throw them at the Dogs.

[Neal]

The pattern isn't so bad when things've escalated. Then every Dog can say, well, I do this, or I do that, and I can target my raises to specific Dogs, as appropriate. But when we're just talking, everyone's affected by default right? I mean, as long as they're opposing whoever's making the raise.

I'm not sure why it would have to be this way.  In the rulebook (p. 41 in my edition), there's an example of "Multiple Opponents" which shows that a person's Raise can demand Sees from any or all of his opponents.  It needn't call for Sees from everyone "by default."

Frex: Let's say we have three Dogs (Brothers Herod, Nimrod, and Lucien) questioning a shopkeeper.  Brother Herod gets his go, and he asks a pointed question about where the shopkeeper was on the night of Sister Prudence's murder.  The shopkeeper Blocks or Dodges to See, pointing out that he was behind the barn near old Widow Sutpen's place, fixing a cart wheel.  Then, on his Raise, he says "I swear I was out by the barn!  Why'n't y'ask this'n here (pointing to Brother Nimrod, a second Dog)?  Ast him didn't he see me out there whilst he was a-spoonin' with young Jenny Weakes."  Now there's a Raise directed at Brother Nimrod, and Brother Herod, as well, but not at Brother Lucien.

The key in the rules is "Whenever you Raise, everybody whose character is affected has to See" (emphasis mine).  Just because everyone is present and engaged doesn't mean they're directly affected by a particular Raise.

[Vaxalon]

In one game I ran, the "elder leader" of the Dogs used his raises to challenge, criticize, and even argue with the other PC's... forcing THEM to raise against him.  Not exactly a team player, but it made for a fascinating dynamic in the game, especially since the other Dogs had more than enough dice to win the conflict.

[oliof]

In one game I ran, the "elder leader" of the Dogs used his raises to challenge, criticize, and even argue with the other PC's... forcing THEM to raise against him.

And this is how You enable people to take some blow with low dice and allow them to bring some other traits into the conflict that wouldn't be easy otherwise (like, for example, a relationship to the dog who challenges You).

Regards,
    oliof

[two_fishes]

Thanks for all suggestions. It sounds like I just need to be more creative and focussed with my Raises.

Related question: How do you handle it when 2+ dogs work together with a raise; like they do 3 in Authority? Do two of the Dogs help the primary dog by passing a single die each over to him, or does each dog get a raise out of the single action?

[Neal]

Thanks for all suggestions. It sounds like I just need to be more creative and focussed with my Raises.

Related question: How do you handle it when 2+ dogs work together with a raise; like they do 3 in Authority? Do two of the Dogs help the primary dog by passing a single die each over to him, or does each dog get a raise out of the single action?

As I read the rules, it works both ways at once, but there's a cost. 

Under "Helping" (p. 42, GenCon ed.), Vincent notes that a PC can aid another PC during a Raise or See that isn't his own, so long as the Helper PC is in a position to contribute to the action in some way that would actually help.  The stipulation is this: if you Help another PC during that PC's See or Raise, your next Raise is made with one die instead of two.  That means, of course, that any given PC is limited to one "helping" action between his own Raises (because you can't Raise with less than a single die).

So the Helping rule doesn't actually take the place of normal Raises and Sees; it's merely a brief interruption of the normal sequence.

To take a nonceremonial example, let's say Brothers Nahum, Christopher, and Joseph are fighting a gang of roadagents.  On a roadagent's Go, Brother Nahum gets caught in the blast of a ten-gauge shotgun and has such crappy dice that he'll have to Take the Blow to See.  Ouch!  But Brother Christopher, having better dice, slides a fat, juicy 8 over to assist Nahum's See, and says "I see that muzzle come up and I bellow like a wounded bull ape, flinging a chair overhand and spoiling the roadagent's shot."  Brother Nahum is spared for the moment, but on his own Go, Brother Christopher will have to Raise with only a single die.  None of this has any effect at all on Brother Joseph's Raises and Sees, though he could have become involved, had he wished to.

The same thing can work with ceremony.  Let's say Brothers Nahum, Christopher, and Joseph have polished off the roadagents, and they're upstairs, trying to revive the Indian woman the roadagents have brutalized and brought to death's door.  You can play the conflict the same way as above, with Brother Nahum taking primary, and Brother Christopher assisting his Raises and Sees, while still making his own Raises and Sees.  Brother Joseph, as above, may be acting independently.  The whole Three in Authority thing, when it's brought into play, is just another way of interacting during the conflict, and while it has its own Fallout, and it can affect things a gun might not, it's still just a tool.

I hope I haven't rehashed a bunch of stuff you already knew.