[TSOY] Old BDTP, new Dice?

[James_Nostack]

Hi, totally like the idea of using Fudge Dice for TSOY, but I totally hate the new "hit point" style BDTP.  So here was something I was thinking about this weekend----

1.  Dice rolls are made using Fudge Dice and the new skill levels, which range from -1 to 4, or whatever the current range is.  This determines success level.

2.  Opponent takes Harm equal to the Success Level, as modified by relevant gear, secrets, etc.

3.  Opponent then makes a Stay-Up check against that harm.  If the check fails, the Opponent shifts to the next damage category (Bloodied, or Broken)--and the Harm tracker goes back to 0.  (In other words, the longer you can successfully stay Bloodied, the more Harm you'll take, and the more likely you'll shift over to Broken.)

In pseudo-playtesting, consisting of rolling a bunch of dice and trying it out many times, it looks like--

1.  Characters with low skill levels (0 and 1) can go for ages without inflicting serious harm on their opponents: whiff, whiff, whiff, more whiffing, send a purchase order to the Whiff factory because we need more Whiffs.  But this is how old BDTP worked anyway.  (The new style, too, perhaps?  Haven't tried it.)

2.  Characters with very high skill levels routinely pound the hell out of similarly skilled opponents within 2-3 rounds.  This seems consistent with how BDTP worked in the old system and the new system as well.

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Does the Revised system get rid of the whiffing?

If not, how can excessive whiffing be removed?  Whiffs are an endangered species and must not be wantonly exploited for crude gaming purposes.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

The revised system totally gets rid of the whiffing. It's the point of the Harm system (well, that and a way to make normal rolls dangerous.)

Here's a solution for what you want - make all rolls parallel actions in BDTP. Everyone's always taking damage. (I'd still leave defensive actions in, though.) That'll eliminate whiffing some.

[James_Nostack]

Hi Clinton,

I'm looking at "The Solar System 2.0a" which I found on the Internet somewhere and DL'd.  I have no idea if these are the "official" revised rules.

If I'm reading them correctly, wouldn't a guy with Skill Level 0, still end up failing a roll roughly 2/3rds of the time?  (I don't have time to calculate the probabilties of Fudge Dice.)  How is that not a whiff?

Like, my one thing with BDTP is that in TSOY (new or old skool) when you're low level you suck at stuff and BDTP forces you to make many rolls with high probability of suckiness, often against an opponent with equal levels of suck.  So, you've got this zoom lens focused on people's incompetence--all of which is occurring in slo-mo.

Don't get me wrong, I think BDTP is great and TSOY is great too, it just seems like this is hard to avoid.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Hi Clinton,

I'm looking at "The Solar System 2.0a" which I found on the Internet somewhere and DL'd.  I have no idea if these are the "official" revised rules.

Oh! Those were playtest rules and got massively changed. There isn't even a real Skill Level 0 anymore.

Hrm... how to best help you out? One would be to find the time to make the new stuff open-source so you could just look at it. I unfortunately don't have that time, especially tonight.

Well, to nutshell it, if you have no skill at all, you're at SL 0. The range of levels after that is 1-4, so with a 1, you have about a third chance of whiffing it up.

[James_Nostack]

Sweetness and light.  When I was thinking this through, I kept saying, "You know, that darn distinction between 0 and 1 skill level is pretty hard to justify and just complicates things." 

And don't make the new version open source, dag nab it!  TSOY already exists as Open Source in an earlier version.  Meanwhile you need some more money, so you can buy a new house, so you can make more games.  The minute I get a week where I don't have money concerns of my own, I'll order a copy.  Lord knows I've bogarted from Anvilwerks long enough.  (I am, however, apparently a minority of one--I like the old cover *infinitely* better than the new one.)