Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Sean P. Fannon, November 22, 2005, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: Ron Edwards on November 23, 2005, 09:47:12 AMThe discussion is going where you wanted, Sean, because you are not understanding what is being said. Based on what you've replied to me, I don't think you grasp anything I'm saying.
Quote"Deep order," for instance, means lots of books, and it can refer to a line rather than a single title. If you think retailers are not pressured to deep-order lines, then you must not be paying attention. They are using comics-based (periodicals) strategy, and it's killing them.
QuoteSimilarly, PDF can be part of a given publisher's strategy, but it does not "replace" books. That's a red herring.
QuoteFinally, do not try to use the kind of childish, flip statements that routinely score points on the WHEEZ-L. This is a different sort of place. "Distributors cannot affect customers because they do not meet them" is a moronic statement, inadmissible in the most basic economics class. When you type something like that, you make it more likely that any of your other points will be dismissed.
Quote... as I see it, stores or fulfilment houses or distributors are middle-men, who can exist successfully only when the publisher-customer relationship is real and sustainable. To me, an industry exists when that relationship permits middlemen and other auxiliary professionals (artists, etc) to make money as well.
QuoteIn other words, all these years, it's been a mere "industry" as publishers and customers stumble about in confusion... GAMA persists as a vehicle to suppot that mutual-reassurance process.
QuoteThe current model followed by Adept Press, Burning Wheel, and others is different in every respect, because it is an industry - people buy our games and play them, then encourage others to do the same. Profits are sufficient to fund future projects and also to pay artists, etc, up-front and without constant fear of cheating (unlike the "industry").
QuoteNow, it is certainly a cottage industry, which as I see it represents exactly what the product is, at present, in our society. As with most cottage industries, customer satisfaction has to be the first priority, or the publisher fails.
QuoteTo date, apparently, customers get their books without whining or bitching about shipping costs.
QuoteThose costs can also be cut by sharing them among publishers (here is where IPR and Key 20 help, again), or as I've done in the past, taking a certain percent of them upon myself because my copy-print cost was low, keeping margins nice and high. We also provide support and interaction beyond the imaginings of other companies. These are the same tactics used by many small businesses, and they work.
Quote from: Sean P. Fannon on November 23, 2005, 08:59:15 AMI hasten to point out that I am not seeing this as a miracle cure for what ails us. I see it as a means to open up additional revenue streams while both assuaging accusations in the retail sector about being "cut out" of sales opportunities and making it possible for customers to go into an FLGS and get the print version of a product previously only available as a PDF.
QuoteOne possibility I see is this: Once the distributors are more fully vested in the process of adding POD products, as needed, to the list of products they can ship as requested from retailers, all of the publishers will be on a more even playing field.At that point, it goes back to the old standards of competition - create a quality product, and spend the time and money needed to promote and sell that product. It won't matter if you've printed 10,000 and they are sitting in a warehouse, or if you have a file stored on a machine at RapidPOD or on RPGNow. The customers will demand what they want (from what they know about), and the retailers will be able to order them just as easily.
Quote from: Sean P. Fannon on November 23, 2005, 08:59:15 AMI hasten to point out that I am not seeing this as a miracle cure for what ails us. I see it as a means to open up additional revenue streams while both assuaging accusations in the retail sector about being "cut out" of sales opportunities ...
QuoteThe RPG industry has been in a steady decline, with virtually every publisher facing great difficulties in bringing products to market.
Quote from: glyphmonkey on November 23, 2005, 12:53:52 PMOur FLGSs have been under the impression that they're doing us a favor by stocking our games. They don't feel like they're being cut out. In fact, they have no idea what's going on at all. They don't realize that there's something happening that they're not looking at.
Quote from: glyphmonkey on November 23, 2005, 02:07:41 PMIt's simple, Clinton: the three-tier can get a lot of books in peoples' hands. If it can get enough out there to make me the same profit, it's more books out there for the same effort on my part. That means more fans, and fans breed fans.If they can't sell that many, they're doing promotion that I get paid for, or at least don't pay for myself.If they sell very few, they're cannibalizing my sales.
Quote from: Clinton R. Nixon on November 23, 2005, 02:10:43 PMAre you arguing with yourself? I could have swore you said the retailers are missing out before.I ask you to seriously look at the model and tell me if you can say that either of these things are true:(a) Retailers and the three-tier model have been responsible for the widespread success of any RPG product in the last 5 years.(b) Your target audience primarily finds out about/buys games at the local game store.I know for a fact (b) is untrue, and I am not aware of any example of (a).
Quote from: Sean P. Fannon on November 23, 2005, 10:32:43 AMAaron Acevedo, the guy who runs Talisman Studios, gave me a real wake-up call when he pointed me at this rather amazing web article. Frankly, it has dramatically altered my entire viewpoint on the gaming industry. Granted, it's oriented towards the computer game market, but I believe the modeling applies even more appropriately to our product and our fan base.