Printer Recomendations?

[ChristopherAshe]

We're about to go to final print with 7/13: Cycle of Existence and I was personally wondering if anyone had experience with major casebound/hardback book manufacturers in the US and Canada (I've noticed a lot of the RPG books I have note being printed in Canada but I haven't been able to find any solid info on printers there).

So I was wondering if anyone had experience running a small print run of like 3-5,000 in hardback and had any resources for book manufacturers or printers, or any reccommendations.

Thanks in advance,

Ashe

[Matt Machell]

First question. Are you familair with Print on Demand? Services like Lulu or one of the others that folks round here have used. It saves on intitial outlay and avoids being stuck with a couple of thousand books nobody has bought...

There's a couple of older threads on pritning, whcih you can find by searching. There's some good info in there.

-Matt

[ChristopherAshe]

Matt,

Thanks very much for that info. I suppose I haven't looked at print on demand in quite a while, but the links I've found here have actually yielded some information that i'm definitely interested in. I am still curious as to larger run book manufacturers if anyone has any info, but for now i'm happy to look at these.

[Andrew Morris]

If you're committed to a hardcover book, Christopher, I don't have any information to help you. If you want a good resource for POD printers, though, check out this thread (page 2 has a good summary near the bottom). The thing about most POD printers is that they only offer softcover. Of the few that do offer hardcover, it is different than the standard hardcovers you've seen for other RPG books.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

My primary game title is sold only as a hardbound book, using a highly traditional printing company, so I think I'll be able to help you.

POD vs. traditional print is, at this time, entering a new technological and commercial phase. I expect that within a year or two, the difference will be minimal - whether in terms of options, costs, or whatever. However, at present, I have not been impressed with POD performance. Perhaps the new program at LuLu will offer a step up in quality from what other companies have done so far. Speaking for myself, I'm withholding switching over (for hard-bound) until some more data become available.

In traditional printing, print-run volume makes a big difference to per-unit price. This leads to a dangerous trap for the publisher, who often seduces himself or herself into ordering very large print runs, thinking they are "saving." You stated 3-5 thousand, which at least doesn't ring any awful alarm bells for me. However, do realize that the days of automatically pumping 500-1000 books into game-store-distribution are over.

Your most fundamental act, then, is comparing bidding. Contact a variety of traditional printers; first on my list is Patterson Printing, but don't stop there. Get bids for different print-run volumes, say 2000, 2500, 3000, etc, and with different paper "weights" (thicknesses, basically).

Make sure you know the vocabulary for "hard covers." The most traditional method is called sewn case-binding, which produces that solid, usable, can't-rip-out feel that people associate with hard covers. The opposite end of the spectrum is just gluing in the wad of pages to the cover, which I can safely say sucks donkey ass and falls apart very quickly. My book, Sorcerer, uses a "hybrid" technique that cuts a little cost but maintains most of the physical integrity. Get bids for the different options available from the printers, too. (Some of them farm out their case-binding, which may or may not increase the cost, but which definitely adds time.)

You will have to compare the bids carefully. Factor in intangibles, such as which representative treated you best as a person (one reason to do all this over the phone), and which tried to double-talk you into options you really don't want. Look out for cheap fixes and people who under-bid primarily by farming work overseas - nearly every instance of this I know of has resulted in disasters.

Finally, check out this older thread: What are the common mistakes of printing?, which includes a comprehensive list of pitfalls to avoid.

Further questions are welcome!

Best,
Ron

[Josh Roby]

Ask if they do their own bindery.  If they subcontract it out, that means there's another middleman taking his cut between you and the actual work being done.

[MatrixGamer]

I second the asking about the bindery part but don't think it is a deal breaker if they don't do both. Printing and book binding are very different tasks. Printing is a lot simpler. When you deal with a printer it is more important to know if they print books. Most printers don't - not really anyway. They may print booklets, maybe even do some perfect binding - but hardback books (especially sewn ones) is a completely different beast.

At the numbers you're talking about the printing will be done on an offest press. These can be as large as a desk or as large as a house. Smaller or medium printers might be good to look at (say 10 million in sales a year). The book binding requires a book sewer and case maker. Small places will likely use older machines (which adds time) but produces a good quality product. A business that regularly prints books will have a good working relationship with a book binder (if it is not done in house).

The recommendation to do business over the phone is very sound. Printing sales reps are a talky bunch. If you know what you want and ask them how they can help you - in a collegial way - they can cut you much better deals. I've gotten good deals talking with people at the end of the day as well. In final assessement though, you're looking at a very expensive project here. 10,000 to 20,000 dollars.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games