Exile (long)

[xiombarg]

[ Okay, kids, I'm considering doing a mini-supplement for Sorcerer. But before I start asking all sorts of questions and reading the FAQ, I wanted to see if it's an idea anyone would like, first of all. So here it is. Get ready, this is going to be long. Stick with me until the second paragraph after this one, at least. ;-) ]

Exile

It is called the Dreamtime. It is a land of wonder, a land of magic. Where green fields and ancient villages sit side-by-side with cyberpunk sprawl beside districts of pure energy and mathematics. Where the ruler of a realm determines not only its social laws, but the laws of physics. Where changing one's shape, and one's gender, is as easy as changing clothes. A place of pleasure, with pain only for those who ask, or stray too far. Where everything, from the river to the tiniest pebble, has a spirit. It is a place of wonder, a land of magic.

And it isn't the slightest bit real.

You are one of the few that remembers the truth. That the Dreamtime is a VR simulation, which your brain has been jacked into directly while your body atrophies and dies, fed nutrients by an IV. It's a prison of pleasure, and you have a life sentence.

You could lay down and take it. It's not so bad. Your avatar, your "body", is infinitely malleable, and you can turn your pain receptors off and on. Nothing can affect you unless you want it to -- so long as you don't go to the wrong places. And the sex is great -- whoever coded the routines made sure everything was possible, and several things that aren't possible in real life are an option as well. The AI for the characters around the Dreamtime is excellent (you often can't tell the difference between an AI and another prisoner just by talking). Plus you're experiencing one century of Dreamtime -- without the need to sleep -- for every year of time in the real world. It could be worse.

But knowing it isn't real ruins it, doesn't it? So you've gone a little deeper. Either you stole the privledges or they were given to you by someone or something else, but you have your programmer bit set now. Though you don't have direct access to the VR code (or even a programmer's VR rig), you can call up, compell, compile, and use the various intellient and semi-intelligent subroutines that run the place -- daemons. You're a wizard, a sorcerer, a sysadmin.

And maybe, just maybe, you can find a way out. It's said that the Dreamtime is connected to the main datanet somewhere... the trick is finding it.

Character Creation

I'm going to concentrate on the differences from normal here, and how the attributes are defined in Exile.

Humanity: As usual, this is the most important statistic. In Exile, it represents your character's memories of his human life, the thing that anchors one to the real world. A character doesn't neccessarily become an NPC when Humanity reaches 0 or lower; instead, the character forgets who they are and comes to believe the Dreamtime is real, or starts to believe that they are a computer program, a daemon. A character with a Humanity of 0 or less can be Contacted, Summoned, Bound, etc. like any other Daemon, because the character has forgotten that he is more than mere software, more than a denizen of the Dreamtime. The Desire and Need is related to what the wizard once was, and should be worked out the the GM. However, such a character cannot learn Demon Abilities, and if their Humanity rises above 0, they are no longer Bound (nor can they be again), and lose their Need and Desire. It is up to the player and the GM whether a Humanity 0 character should be retired (become an NPC), depending on where the character's story is going.

Stamina: More so than in other Sorcerer] settings, this is energy an staying power. The only other physical attribute relevant in the Dreamtime is one's reflexes. The sorts of Descriptions that are good for Stamina in Exile include but are not limited to: Natural Vigor, Tireless, Twitchy, Smooth, Precise, Large Energy Reserves, Slow and Steady, Hyperactive.

Lore: This represents your knowledge of coding. Perhaps you just use (Contact and Summon) well-known routines, or perhaps you're good at kit-bashing a new daemon together from scripts, tho your lack of direct access to the VR code means that daemons are often not what you expect, even when you use the same routines over and over. The sorts of Descriptions that are good for Lore in Exile include but aren't limited to: Hacker (Lore 2 and up), Script Kiddie (Lore 1), Found and Read All the Helpfiles (Lore 2-3), and Intuitive Coder/Mad Scientist (Lore 4)

Will: This is pretty much the same.

Cover: This is what you were before you went into exile; since most of the realms in the Dreamtime attempt to simulate a semi-realistic world, some of your old-world skills may still be useful. Optionally, your Cover might be a role you've taken on in some realm of the Dreamtime, such as "Divine Healer" (in the more fantasy-RPG-like realms) or "Accounting Program" (in those realms of pure energy and data where the daemons admit what they are.)

The Price: The VR rig your character is connected with isn't designed for programming. Programmers normally use a special rig. Accessing the VR bubbles that allow one to work with daemons with the wrong hardware can extract a toll far beyond headaches, as these signals are going directly to the brain. All the example Prices in Sorcerer are appropriate; due to the damage caused it may very well be one's avatar acts as if it is Lame. Other good Prices for Exile include things like Warped Perceptions (-1 die to notice anything), Talks in Machine Code/Talks Like A Geek (-1 to social interactions, even with most other nerds, as they may disagree with your coding style), and Coding Junkie (-1 to all dice pools unless you've done a sorcerous ritual in the last 24 hours).

Telltale: When you become a programmer, your avatar is flagged in some fashion so others know you're a programmer. No matter how much you change your avatar's shape, you can't get rid of your Telltale. The example Telltales in Sorcerer are fine, but you can include more computer/VR related Telltales like "flickering avatar" (i.e. the avatar literally blinks in and out of visibility at a rapid rate) or "skin covered with binary code".

Once-Over: You should say why your character is has been exiled to the Dreamtime. Memories of the real world are hazy, and various Sorcerers seem to contradict each other when they say how they got there. Some say they are political prisoners, but no one can remember what the government was like. Others claim to be murderers or other serious criminals. Some say that they're on vacation in the Dreamtime, and that eventually they'll wake up. Still others claim a terrible disaster (which they can't quite recall) made all of humanity infertile, and now nearly everyone is jacking into the Dreamtime waiting to die.

Demons

Or, more accurately, daemons: semi-intelligent routines or full AIs.

Everything in the Dreamtime, from the great dragons to the lowliest rock, is a daemon, except for human-controlled avatars. A Sorcerer can attempt to Bind (or Pact) any daemon he sees, tho most daemons aren't worth it; a rock, for example, is generally an Power 1 Object demon with no Abilities, with a Desire to remain still. More animate creatures are, essentially, Passer demons, or in some cases, Inconspicuous demons. These "free" or "wild" demons do not have a Need until they are Bound, at which point they develop one appropriate to their nature, or perversely appropriate to a computer program ("be given 1000 numbers a day to add, different numbers every time"). Passer daemons, in particular, have complicated AI personalities and are difficult or impossible to tell from a "real" person or animal -- they're just as willful as any demon from folklore.

A "wild" daemon that is Banished returns to their Home, a default location in the Dreamtime that all daemons have, but the Sorcerer does not have a chance of Humanity gain unless the demon is Bound to someone else. In fact, this is the general case: A Banished demon merely returns to the part of the Dreamtime they came from, and can be Summoned again or even encountered walking down the street.

Possessor daemons ("override programs") and Parasite daemons ("avatar subroutines") must always be Contacted, Summoned, and Bound as normal; they do not exist in the "wild" like other daemons (their Home is a special storage space generally inaccessible to everyone), tho Object, Passer, and Inconspicuous daemons can be contacted in the normal way as well. Avatar subroutines (i.e. Parasite demons) must be hosted in the avatar of a human being, tho the avatar does not have to be that of the wizard, so long as the recipient is willing.

There is one new Demon Ability for Exile:

PROGRAMMER BIT. The daemon can act as a Sorcerer, without any fear of Humanity loss, as it isn't human, Summoning and Banishing with a Humanity of 0, which never changes. Demons with this ability often control entire sectors of the Dreamtime. This ability counts as three abilities for the purpose of determining its Lore, and every daemon the Programmer Daemon has Bound to it at the time of Contact counts as another ability. Demons with the ability are usually only encounter in the "wild" as the ruler of a realm.

The Telltale for daemons is some sort of tiny reminder that the daemon isn't real, but a AI VR construct. The examples in Sorcerer are good (the otherworldliness is an indication of unreality), but can also including things like "polygons are visible if you look real close", "flashes green when angry" and "sometimes what it's saying appears over its head as a line of floating text".

As mentioned above, the Rule of Binding and the Rule of Need are a little different for "wild" demons, but not by much.

The Rule of Secrecy is a little different for daemons. They're willing to admit they're spirits, and show themselves openly in that fashion. What they want to keep a secret is the fact that they're really computer programs, not spirits at all. And even this isn't a hard and fast rule: In the places where data and abstraction flow in a surreal energy matrix, daemons often openly admit they are programs, particular ones with prosiac functions, like accounting. (Think Tron when you think of these realms and you won't be too far off.)

Rules For Sorcery

Game-mechanically, these are all the same. It's just that the "flash" is more programmer-oriented -- a Summoning might include a green bubble popping around the wizard's head while he types on an invisible keyboard. Tho this isn't always the case -- some programmer tools are designed to look like magick, and so look a lot more like the examples in Sorcerer.

Some small notes:

Instead of getting bonus dice to Contacting for hallucinogens, one gets bonus dice for accessing more and more intense programming tools, risking damage to one's brain, as the rig used by those exiled in the Dreamtime is not designed for those tools. The more VR-itensive the programming tool, the more "hits" of hallucinogens it counts as being, complete with the possibility of Will loss. There is no good way in Exile to boost Stamina; better make do with what you've got.

Sacrifices do improve Summoning attempts; one must sacrifice a human's avatar (possibly making the victim brain-dead if he can't escape such a fate) or an un-Bound "wild" daemon. This is known as "cannibalizing code" or "stealing ticks" -- the system resources allocated to the victim are offered to the daemon being Summoned. (Obviously, sacrificing a rock isn't worth a full bonus die -- one usually needs something more resource-intensive, like a Passer.)

Why does dealing with Daemons cause Humanity loss? As I've said before, the VR rig used by virtually everyone in the Dreamtime is not fully capable of supporting the intense yet abstract VR tools used by the programmers, and the strain risks temporary or permanent brain damage -- and loss of memory. The reason Banishing increases Humanity is this affirms the power of humans over mere code, putting one back in touch with one's human self.


[ In the full version, I'd have more on the flavor of things, particularly the Sorcery mechanics (Contain will be called "Firewalling") and more detail on the Dreamtime itself. Also, I'll probably need to re-write combat, as every avatar can shapeshift, turn off pain, and become insubstantial at will -- unless someone takes control of the local "laws of physics" to prevent this sort of thing. So I'll need a sort of mechanic for asserting yourself over the local "reality"

What do y'all think, tho? Would anyone want it?]

[J B Bell]

Well, I'd sure as hell like to play it, I'll say that much.  The cool factor is very high on this one.

--JB

[Seth L. Blumberg]

What JB said, absolutely.

[Clay]

I think it's got a lot of potential.  I probably wouldn't play it, as the sorcerers too closely resemble the people that I spend my days fighting against. You see, in real life, I have access to the source.

I'm not sure that I'd give everyone the ability to shapeshift. Based on my logfiles, I'd say that there's a good number of clients that aren't capable of shapeshift; i.e. code that can't adapt to the situation, or at least the controlling operator doesn't know how to do it. Clients that persist on making attacks that the target is known to be immune to, operators who's machines (avatars in your game) gleefully offer up services to more skilled operators.

[xiombarg]

I think it's got a lot of potential.  I probably wouldn't play it, as the sorcerers too closely resemble the people that I spend my days fighting against. You see, in real life, I have access to the source.

I'm a sysadmin. I do, too. Still, setting the sorcerers up as prisoners gives them a little more moral standing. Just a little.

I'm not sure that I'd give everyone the ability to shapeshift. Based on my logfiles, I'd say that there's a good number of clients that aren't capable of shapeshift; i.e. code that can't adapt to the situation, or at least the controlling operator doesn't know how to do it. Clients that persist on making attacks that the target is known to be immune to, operators who's machines (avatars in your game) gleefully offer up services to more skilled operators.

I didn't make it clear in my outline, but the powers I give to the avatar is something the original VR programmers intended: Even those without the programming bit, you can shapeshift, turn off pain, etc. It's just a matter of "setting your defaults". Mainly the shapeshifting is so it's possible to experience sex from both genders -- the guy who did the sex code for the Dreamtime was a little obsessive.

[Ace]

Wow!

Thats like the Matrix but much much better.

With the right marketing IMO the Dreamtime could "Break Out" into the bigger game world.

People constantly talk about a Matrix style RPG and this version is much better

Nice idea. The only thing I have to ask is "why care"

Life in the Dreamtime would be a lot better than a lot of real life would be. I can see the reasons one might become a Sorcerer in the "modern world"  but there isn't as much to gain in Dreamtime and a lot more to lose.

Now FWIW I would buy a copy just to see what can be done but I am not sure us Forge posters are a good represenative sample.

We are after all eLITe GaMz Hax0r types of the RPG world :D

[xiombarg]

Nice idea. The only thing I have to ask is "why care"

Well, that's for you to decide, isn't it? Maybe you miss your RL girlfriend -- there is more than just sex, after all. Maybe you can't stand the idea that it isn't real. Maybe you just want to stick it to the people who put you there. Maybe it's just the thrill of having gone further than you're supposed to.

Generally, the idea is something that you remember is driving you. Something that makes you yearn for something more, something that compells you to go to the more dangerous parts of the Dreamtime, where the users aren't supposed to go.

Life in the Dreamtime would be a lot better than a lot of real life would be. I can see the reasons one might become a Sorcerer in the "modern world"  but there isn't as much to gain in Dreamtime and a lot more to lose.

Depends on your perspective. Wanna see your son again, and not just a simulation?

Now FWIW I would buy a copy just to see what can be done but I am not sure us Forge posters are a good represenative sample.

Well, this is a supplement for Sorcerer, after all. The Forge is as close to the heart of the indie RPG market as you get.

[Clay]

Because the challenge is gone.  Will you enjoy the beer as much if you haven't spent the hour or two before working in the yard?  Will you enjoy a wild weekend with a pair of redheads nearly as much when it's only a matter of assembling a script to have them?  Will you enjoy bragging about it to your buddies if you know it's just a souped up version of Eliza listening?

Maybe I'm just a ludite, but I'm pretty sure that I'd prefer real beer and real redheads over anything that even a good VR console has to offer.  That's why I'd care.  That's why I'd try to crack the system and escape.

That said, I think that this would be an excellent contrast to the setting I'm trying to use for my next Sorcerer session (whenever that is).  The demons are all about excess and hedonism.  Virtual is exactly what they've grown tired of, real, and lots of it, is what they're after.

[Ace]

Because the challenge is gone.  Will you enjoy the beer as much if you haven't spent the hour or two before working in the yard?  Will you enjoy a wild weekend with a pair of redheads nearly as much when it's only a matter of assembling a script to have them?  Will you enjoy bragging about it to your buddies if you know it's just a souped up version of Eliza listening?

Maybe I'm just a ludite, but I'm pretty sure that I'd prefer real beer and real redheads over anything that even a good VR console has to offer.  That's why I'd care.  That's why I'd try to crack the system and escape.

.

I am rather a non visceral person myself. I don't drink beer,  like yard work, or want more than one red head at a time so...  
My idea of a wild weekend is playing some music and reading.

Thinking about it  alot depends on how good the AI is. If you can't tell the diference why bother?

Why would I bust out (as Aliister's 'Stuck' is playing in the background "break out today throwing my life away" ) either to see someone on the outside or maybe to trancend reality in some spititual fashion.

Intersting setting though I look forward to it.

[Clay]

My idea of a wild weekend is playing some music and reading.

Thinking about it alot depends on how good the AI is. If you can't tell the diference why bother?

Now ask yourself, what did you have to go through before you could get that weekend of reading and playing music. Did it come gratis, because you found a script somewhere, or is it your reward after a week toiling away in the code mines?  If it's something that you can have any day of the week, I contend that its value diminishes significantly. I appreciate my cool afternoon reading and grooving to Beethoven and Lemmy (not at the same time) much more when I haven't been able to do it for the last five days.

Theoretically, if the simulation of reality is good enough, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I am not, however, willing to stipulate that men can build machines (or machines that can build machines) that improve upon actual redheads, beers or afternoon breezes.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi folks,

'Scuse me, but I think the discussion of would-you or wouldn't-you is a sterile one. We are talking about the protagonists in the potential story, and they want "out," and we need to recognize this and  move on. If that's not a story that you can identify with, then you're not really a good candidate to participate in the discussion.

Now let's talk about escape-from-VR stories, with special reference to The Matrix. Please don't read the following as a rant; it is a reasoned argument.

1) The Matrix is a stupid movie, to the point of being insulting and dishonest. This judgment is based on contrasting the conflicts, concerns, and resolutions of the Real World (in the movie) to that of the Fake World.

The primary event-example, chosen from many, is the death of the villainous traitor-guy. Note his line right before he is shot. Note who shoots him, and his condition prior to doing so.

The primary theme-example, out of two major ones possible, is the relationship. It's ... well, fake. She loves him if he's the One. He waffles. He chooses to be the One. She loves him. Again, any possible contrast between fake/story/made-up world and a real window into human experience is totally lost.

In other words, the Real World in the movie is just as fake, cinematic, contrived, and ultimately meaningless in human terms as the Fake World is.

2) I think we all agree that we don't want Sorcerer mini-supplements to be stupid and contrived, so the first order of business is how to keep this material from being The Matrix. I think the only option is to go with real science fiction, which romanticizes the human experience by definition - whether in a sanitized way, a la Asimov, or down and dirty and occasionally bitter, a la Spinrad.

I picked those two examples carefully, based on I, Robot, and The Caves of Steel by the former, and Little Heroes by the latter. The robot stories, when read with care, are very much about the real people being actually ill-suited to interacting with unambiguously moral and selfless beings - but that the human experience is better after all. Little Heroes, in my opinion, is (or rather was already) everything The Matrix purported to be, but with the addition of Ideas, Characters, and Conflict about Stuff. Its greatest moment is a grubby little sex scene between two people who dislike one another, and who don't enjoy it very much - but it resolves a problem in a way that all the VR-fantasy could never do.

3) The topic at hand, then, would benefit greatly by providing flashes of insight and experience from the (fictional) Real World as part of play. I don't suggest having the characters wander about in it, but rather for the practice of sorcery to provide touchstones with it that are rather shocking in their potential pain and - most importantly - garner their value not from their potential pleasure, but rather from some ineffable quality of "being real."

Best,
Ron

[xiombarg]

'Scuse me, but I think the discussion of would-you or wouldn't-you is a sterile one. We are talking about the protagonists in the potential story, and they want "out," and we need to recognize this and  move on. If that's not a story that you can identify with, then you're not really a good candidate to participate in the discussion.

I was hoping you'd say that, Ron, so I didn't have to. ;-)

Now let's talk about escape-from-VR stories, with special reference to The Matrix. Please don't read the following as a rant; it is a reasoned argument.

I generally agree about the Matrix, though I perhaps didn't dislike it as much as you did. (Tho I remember wanting to shout at the screen when it said the AIs got energy from humans now that the sun was gone: "Hellooo! Entropy anyone? The sun is the source of all energy on Earth!")

The intent with "Exile" is not to do "the Matrix, only better", tho people are welcome to play it that way. My main inspirations for this are my own experiences in the computer industry, old Gibson cyberpunk novels, and a strange cyberspace-themed BBS a friend of mine used to run called "Exit". The only thing I'd be likely to steal from the Matrix is the cinematic combat, which I wished there was more of in the film, since the plot was hardly gripping. (Tho you have to admit everyone LOOKED cool. The movie was better as a poster. But I digress.)

2) I think we all agree that we don't want Sorcerer mini-supplements to be stupid and contrived, so the first order of business is how to keep this material from being The Matrix. I think the only option is to go with real science fiction, which romanticizes the human experience by definition - whether in a sanitized way, a la Asimov, or down and dirty and occasionally bitter, a la Spinrad.

I'm on board with you here, Ron. Tho our sources are different (never read Spinrad, tho I LOVE I, Robot) I think we're on the same wavelength.

3) The topic at hand, then, would benefit greatly by providing flashes of insight and experience from the (fictional) Real World as part of play. I don't suggest having the characters wander about in it, but rather for the practice of sorcery to provide touchstones with it that are rather shocking in their potential pain and - most importantly - garner their value not from their potential pleasure, but rather from some ineffable quality of "being real."

I agree. If it's just about pleasure, you can just wire current to the pleasure center of your brain (ala Niven's "wireheads"). That's not what I want Exile to be about. The wizards in Exile have rejected that exprience as empty.

As for "flashes of the Real World", I wanted to leave the Real World somewhat vague initially, so characters could have conflicting stories -- which makes them question even more what's real and what isn't. But I like the idea of them getting shocking revelations from the Real World, particularly ones that might contradict their fuzzy memory.

The question is: How would this be done game mechanically? Would you get a flash of memory every time your Humanity went up? What if you also got a flash when Humanity went down -- it's just at that point, you get a contradictary memory. Or should those flashes be part of resolving the Kicker? Or something you get when you push at certain parts of the Dreamtime? What do people think?

And Ron: On a different note, I'm surprised you didn't balk at me giving demons the ability to do sorcery. ;-)

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

I'm thinkin' that the Kickers themselves should be defined as a list or semi-paragraph of the character's current perceptions of the Real World - whether idealistic, tantalizing, fragmented, compelling, or whatever. "High-potential incoherence" would be the goal. Then losing and gaining Humanity would then be a narrative add-on and clarification of the Kicker paragraph, for better (wanting still more to escape) or for worse (rejecting the real in favor of the VR).

As for the demons, I tend to leave this sort of thing very up in the air until the other stuff gets as coherent as possible. I've found that once Humanity and sorcery-as-activity is well stated, the demons write themselves - and the supplement itself should know when to stop and leave it up to the players anyway.

Best,
Ron

[Bob McNamee]

There are some interesting Trapped in VR ideas in the Tad Williams "Otherland" series...

Malevolent powerful god-like rulers, violent iconic flunkies, search for and path to an exit, and real world  involvement...

Bob McNamee

[xiombarg]

I'm thinkin' that the Kickers themselves should be defined as a list or semi-paragraph of the character's current perceptions of the Real World - whether idealistic, tantalizing, fragmented, compelling, or whatever. "High-potential incoherence" would be the goal. Then losing and gaining Humanity would then be a narrative add-on and clarification of the Kicker paragraph, for better (wanting still more to escape) or for worse (rejecting the real in favor of the VR).

Sounds good to me. I guess my next step is to read some of the literature suggested on this thread. I've got my Gibson and Asimov down pat.