Interview with the Sorcerer

[matthijs]

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but it's a link to an interview I did with Ron a while ago for the Norwegian fanzine "Imagonem". Imagonem has been in hibernation for a while, which all fanzines must do regularly, but it's been woken up and is grumpy and smelly and on the internet.

http://www.imagonem.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=7

[Yokiboy]

Hello Matthijs,

Thanks for sharing this looks like great stuff. I'll get back with more pertinent comments once I've wasted an hour of my employers time reading the whole thing.

TTFN,

Yoki

[Ron Edwards]

Those are the first two parts of a three-part interview. I never did get around to completing the third part, but I did most of it and outlined the rest.

I suppose I could finish it up and send it to you for the site, Matthijs.

Best, Ron

[matthijs]

That'd be great, Ron! It's been a while, so I don't remember the questions I gave you - which just means that I have a happy surprise to look forward to.

[Per Fischer]

Thanks for posting the interview, it is a splendid read, absolutely fascinating. When was the interview originally done?

Per

[matthijs]

I don't really remember. It's probably a year or so ago...? Ron, do you remember when it was?

[Ron Edwards]

I think you sent me the questions in the summer of 2004, at the earliest, and according to my file-saving dates, I replied in September 2004. Which sort of embarasses me considering how long I sat on the rest of it. You guys can see, though, that the questions are extremely open-ended, and the third part even more so.

Anyway, I also greatly appreciate you sending me the hard copy of Imagonem which included it.

Everyone else, comments and questions about the interview are certainly welcome.

Best,
Ron

[Thunder_God]

I'm curious on how you'd change any of your answers if you were asked them today.

[Ron Edwards]

Not at all. In fact, those answers are a little behind the time, as I've acted upon my conclusions fairly considerably since then, including the revisions of the Forge.

Best, Ron

[Ron Edwards]

All right, then, are there any substantive questions or comments?

Best, Ron

[Calithena]

I liked the bit about being involved in producing a new activity before it hits popular culture. I hope you're right.

Oh yeah, and the thing about 'gamers' seems silly to me. It's like these two young punk rock women I knew who were having sex with each other but claimed that they weren't 'lesbians' because they didn't like cats and gardening and drink tea. Suit yourself, man.

[Thunder_God]

Hmm, here and elsewhere you posted how the mainstream people you've tried to cooperate with to bring your creations into circulations didn't have a concept of creating a lasting success.

You don't describe what does lead to this, ultimately desired, result.

Could you now?

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Sean, check out Helping Sorcerer thrive, especially the second page, for my outlook underlying the "gamer" comments and thoughts in the interview. I think you may be speaking from a similar POV as Nathan in that thread.

Guy, your question makes me suspect that you haven't read Mainstream: a revision from November 2002. This is one of the Infamous Five family of threads which transformed the Forge into a community, and which you can find linked in a sticky in the Site Discussion forum.

All of which is to say, in speaking about TSR, or AEG, or any number of other companies of that sort, the very last word I would use is "mainstream." They are not mainstream. They are fringe, and a rather static sort of fringe, with no "avant" in their "garde."

To answer your excellent question, then - the answer has changed consistently as the internet and printing technologies have changed, but if I say so myself, I've been at the cutting edge of success with those changes for ... um, geez, it looks like almost ten years now. The answer is demonstrated right here, all around you, right now, at the Forge. This isn't the only website for it, and the companies that participate here aren't the only companies to do it, but we lead the way and document the experience.

Concretely? Speaking for this day of this month of this year? (because those technologies and their associated economy are still changing)

1. Design a game and interest some friends in trying it out with you.

2. Utilize whichever forums make most sense for your entry - for me, typically, it's been Actual Play because I dislike designing through public dialogue. Others have done well starting with First Thoughts, or its equivalent in Indie Design before the forum change.

2(a). If a cool contest is going on, that can be a jump-start; in fact, the 24-hour RPG project is ongoing, and I recommend it.

2(b). Utilize other websites entirely. Be a nice guy on RPG.net and Story Games; participate in blogs whose content appeals to you. Most importantly, at the Forge and elsewhere, be mutualistic and help others with their games - play them, post about them.

3. Make a playable game text available on-line; this is actually publishing. Play it yourself, post in Actual Play. Perhaps start a blog about it, if that's your thing.

3(a). Bring copies to local conventions and other game groups. Play, play, play. Revise, revise. Shoot sacred cows. Play, play, play. Revise. Cultivate constructive arrogance and constructive humility.

If the game is any damn good and if a support community is appearing, then consider publishing it commercially.

4. Consider the options for physical packaging - I've laid all this out several times in the Publishing forum, so run some searches there. Also consider the options for distribution. You're in Israel, right Guy? So you should consider working with a POD company that can print in Europe and the States, to avoid transcontinental shipping.

Currently, a fine combination seems to be having a PDF available for sale at one's site and using one of the better POD companies for shipping. For warehousing and handling fulfilment, either do it yourself or use Indie Press Revolution or Key 20. Arrive at a personal conclusion regarding all the options. Stores? Traditional distribution? Type of printing? Size of initial print run?

5. The previous step didn't say do it, it said, consider the options. Once you've nailed down your choices among the options, then the next step is budgeting. Budget for art, travel, printing, commissions, and to some extent, time. Think about your next year of life and what time-windows and time-sinks are coming up from other obligations. Learn about how to calculate a print run size. Discuss any questions or concerns in the Publishing forum.

Important: don't budget more money than you can afford to lose. I mean lose. What would happen if someone came up and just stole $600 from you? Inconvenience and aggravation? OK, you can live with that. $6000? Disaster, perhaps, a life-changing event. [The "you" in this paragraph is not you, Guy. Replace these sums with whatever makes sense in your life.] Keep your budget in the former category.

5(a). Approach all people whose services you need: art, layout, website management, fulfilment, etc, and assemble your team. Identify those most ardent supporters who've promoted the game beyond your expectations, and include them in the plans for the game's launch. Identify those publishers who'd be interested in promoting your game, and get advertisements from them to include in your game. Remove from your orbit any people who've managed to attach themselves to the project solely via friendship and play-association, who interfere rather than contribute.

5(b). Drive the game through the most brutal critique possible, returning to your own original vision and considering whether it's changed, and by deciding which playtesting and community comments are valid and which are not. Do not rush step #5 as a whole. There is no hurry. Play the game more and more. Think.

6. Finally, launch, print, distribute, promote, and market. If you've done the previous steps right, and if you really are basing your publishing-push off of a base of actual play out there, then you will enjoy initial profits that exceed your print costs, within months, sometimes quicker. If you continue to be mutualistic with other publishers and if you continue to participate in the community of your game, then you can enjoy these profits indefinitely.

Pitfalls

Never seek "the guy" who will publish your game for you or take care of any of the above decisions for you. There is no "guy." All people claiming to be the "guy" are predators. Key 20 and IPR are not predators specifically because they do not claim to be the "guy," do not buy ownership of the product, and leave all key decisions to the owners of the games.

Do not get trapped in the process. It is tempting to bask in the attention and mutualism of others because you are "making a game." It is pleasant to feel accepted by people like Vincent, Paul, Clinton, or Troy. The work of actually doing the game - what I call the grope-and-kill stage when everything goes badly all at once - seems onerous in comparison. It's so much easier to post in a LiveJournal or blog about some little idea you had, or musing about the joys of the artistic experience. At this time, and at any point consistently through the life of the Forge, there are at least three dozen people sinking in this trap. I mourn for none of them.

Remember that no one owes you a God damn thing. Therefore your design must arise honestly out of actual play experiences. It is not therapy for past emotional traumas about play. It is not about being respected by the store proprietor whom you wanted to impress. It is not a way to impress me specifically, or the Forge as a community. Remember that you can die wretched and alone in deepest, darkest Africa.

Latest case study, out of many

The Shab al-Hiri Roach - begin with last year's Game Chef contest, then proceed to threads here at the Forge. Talk to Jason if you'd like, to get a step-by-step history of his choices with and about the game.

Final point - this answer would have been different in its details, every year prior to this one, dating back to my self-publishing push beginning in 1998. But its basic structure has remained exactly the same.

Best, Ron

[Thunder_God]

First, I'd like to say I love that drop-off mention of City of Brass and/or Heart of Darkness :)

Second, I understand what you're saying, and I think I've done most of them, though I don't want to list it in detail here because I too understand and love the Universal You.

Third, and also "First", thank you for your reply, and you're right, I did not yet peruse the mentioned thread. In a way I am avoiding that Pitfall, I'd rather concentrate on Pushing than on Pulling In right now.

Fourth, I'd like to note you can do 5(a) before you even finish 2. Asking questions never hurts. It also helps you formulate 4. In fact, I'd say you can't really seperate 5(a) and 4!

Last, as for myself, I am standing at the following stage: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5(a)(partially), All were done. I also reached the same conclusion as you did regarding PoD/PoCD(Print on Customer Demand, like RPGNow) because of my geographical "problems".
I'm going to try 3(a) next week at our country's biggest convention.

Hopefully I'll get 3(a) with actual playtest going on sometime soon. Actually, that's part of what I came here for, to get others to playtest my game, due to my situational/time problems. At least since I'm in the army I have NO time obligations for the next year and change, aside from when I go to the university, which is based on choice.

Anyway, thanks for the answer, and for bearing with me!