Ignoring Raises

[Tindalos]

I'm asking for some people's thoughts on the ability of Raises to be ignored.

For example, demons it seems like typical raises (gunshots) can be ignored, whereas ceremony cannot be ignored.  What about for sorcerers, or just random situations.

Is there a time when a raise can be ignored?

If so, should the players be warned in advance?

If not, are dice used in an ignored raise lost without requiring a see?

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

[Vaxalon]

What I usually do with raises that I think ought to be ignored, is simply to ask, "Don't you think that Brother Thomas could just ignore that?"

I usually only do that, however, if I've already established certain immunities.

For example, if we have established that Brother Thomas is deaf, and a PC comes up behind him and starts talking... I would toss it back in the player's corner.  "He's deaf, remember?"

[Darren Hill]

Here's how I think it works: Players always have the option of rephrasing a Raise until it is valid.
So, what happens is this:
A Player chooses his target, and makes a raise designed to affect that target in some way.
If any other player at the table (whether the target, the GM, or a spectator) says, "that seems a bit weak? I don't think that would affect him.", group then discusses what to do. For example, will the raising player choose a different target and different Raise? Will the raising player rephrase his raise against the target? Or even coming to a group consensus that the original raise is okay, after all.
If the raising player needs help in coming up with a viable raise, the other players (even the target) should be willing to offer suggestions.
Then, finally, the Raise goes ahead.

Player: "My raise: I shoot the demon."
GM: demon's aren't affected by guns.
Player: "Okay, My raise: after shooting uselessly, I sing a psalm and drive it back."

Also remember, a Raise is both the narration and the dice. You can't commit dice to a raise until you have a valid narration. So the player should never lose dice.

[lumpley]

Fred and Darren are right!

A raise is something your opponent can't ignore. If your opponent can ignore it, it was never your raise. It was just something you said.

Your group can to decide to let it stand as something your character actually did, but your character's opponent ignored it, before you made your raise; your group can decide instead to revise what your character actually did, once you make your raise.

Either way, no, you don't have to spend dice on a non-raise, and no, there aren't any particular restrictions on who has to notify whom in advance what any given opponent can ignore.

One thing to consider is that, by stating something as a raise, I might be asserting that my opponent can't ignore it. If you're the GM, you should assume that this is what your players are doing, whenever you can. It's the opposite of looking for ways that your NPCs can ignore the PCs' raises: you should be actively looking for ways that your NPCs can't ignore them.

-Vincent

[Lance D. Allen]

Or an additionally cool one..

Dog: I shoot the demon.
GM: Uh.. demons aren't affected by guns.
Dog: The bullets are blessed. Remember I said that earlier?
GM: Okay, cool. The demon shrieks as the bullets tear into it's incorporeal body, and...

[Tindalos]

Thanks for the comments!