[Dust Devils] Running out of cards

[Hans]

Ok, have any of you ever run out of cards?  I did at GenCon, and am interested in solutions.  I am loathe to give up my 1888 Grover Cleveland presidential campaign deck, but its looking like if I ever have more than 5 people in the game (including me) I need to drop it and shuffle two decks together, which leads to some questions:

* Does it matter if the backs are identical or not?  I'm thinking no.
* Can you get five of a kind, or is the limit still four? I'm thinking limit it to the normal poker hands, except you could end up with a pair of Aces that are both hearts.
* How do you deal with ties, especially on narration rights?  I'm thinking you have different backs to the cards and prioritize one deck over the other.

Of course, another option would be to find a deck that has the french suits (staves, wands, etc. like you find in a tarot deck) and mixing that in (like a Cripple Mr. Onion deck), but that seems more trouble than its worth.

Hans

[Eero Tuovinen]

This is a pretty common phenomenon hereabouts, but it's never been a big deal. When I have four or more players, I usually use two decks, one for the Dealer, one for the rest of the players. Furthermore, I give that second deck to one of the players and make him a dealer-aide, responsible for all the player dealing. I never do any attribute or knack evaluation myself when playing, so I don't have any particular need to watch the players get their cards. Instead, I figure out the hands for all the various NPCs while the players sort their cards out themselves.

With those two decks with different backs I always give precedence to the player deck, should there be identical high cards in two hands. Sometimes I deal to some of the players from "my" deck if the player deck is not enough, but I've never cared about the slight disadvantage this might cause to those players enough to do something about it.

[Matt Snyder]

For ties, you could do the Nine Worlds trick -- just pick an unused card from the rest of your hand (NOT the 5 cards you played). Highest non-tied card wins. If you don't have unused cards and your opponent does, tough luck. He wins.

That's a nitty-gritty suggestion. It's an issue for 5+ player games, and I've never solved it to my satisfaction very well. I have toyed with the notion of some kind of Texas Hold 'em or other small hand style game that uses a river, cross or other "shared" set of cards for everyone (i.e. everyone has fewer cards, but everyone also shares a set number of cards that are face up on the table).

[Remko]

Hi Matt,

I'll be playing your game tomorrow (of which I've already informed you) on a Con. Unfortunately, I'll probably be getting more than 4 players after all, which'll mean that I'll have to use one of the two options.

Advantages and disadvantages from my opinion:

2 different decks:

+ Less ties, not the problem of 'Five of a Kind'
-  A bit of unfairness, because players have less cards at their disposal (I guess???).

2 decks in one:

+ More 'fairness' as opposed to the different decks
+ More of a feeling with the Dealer thing (hey, I think atmosphere is important)
-  Five of a Kind Problem

Should I have 5 players, I'll be using the 2 decks in one, I guess. But I'll have a chat with my players.. It won't hurt as well.

[Matt Snyder]

Hi, Remko!

With five players, you'll find that 1 deck can work, but that you might start to run out of room when all participants are in a conflict together. You're right at the "edge" of the problem, so to speak.

Either version can work. I prefer the two different decks solution . In either case, I would disallow any variation on poker hands -- i.e. no Five of a Kinds. Just allow four of a kinds, and remind the player to include a fifth card as needed for narration, for example (in fact, if he uses the Joker, that's LOW for narration). Remember, with those Revenged rules, the Harm works a little different with big hands.

Finally, I keep forgetting to get back to your email. Here's the relevant information for Folding (aka the poorly referenced Fold 'Em in the text I sent you):

Any time before the Call, any player (or the Dealer) may spend 1 chip to fold, thereby removing his character from the risks and rewards of a conflict. Folding is a way to exist a tense situation without solving the problem. Chances are, the character will have to deal with the conflict sooner or later. When a player folds, his character's goal must remain unresolved, though the issue may return in a later conflict. Addtionally, the character can suffer no Harm from other characters.

Any player who places Stakes prior to folding immediately loses his Stakes, and returns the chips to the bank.

[Remko]

Hi Matt,

Send already an e-mail back... Some thoughts over how it worked out Saturday. Do you want me to post it here on the Forge? Or are the problems so common that it doesn't give any food for thought?

[Matt Snyder]

Remko, by all means, post your experiences here!