Hero Wars 101

[Ian O'Rourke]

Okay, a while back Ron did a whole series of Sorcerer set-up threads, and they worked really well as a 'look under the hood' of one approach to setting up narrativist games, and the like.

What about doing one for Hero Wars? Big task I know, but I think there is a lot of people swimming around out in the internet void that grasp the system enough to realise it could be 'the one they they've been waiting for', but lack some of the detail to make the leap - either because the don't grasp the rules, the concept behind them or the grit of their application (or all three).

I was thinking less on the set-up but instead a write up of situations (whether played through or not, though stuff from actual play would be good), why they are good Hero Wars stories (thus dealing with the premise/setting issues) and how they played out in the rules (thus letting people into the mind of someone who has got to grips with the system).

Big task, but useful, anyone care to give it a go?

[Ron Edwards]

Ian,

GREAT suggestion. I'll be the GM guy. You be a player. Who else? Next two people, you're in. (And once there are two, everybody else back off!)

Best,
Ron

[Ayrizale]

I've been looking at Hero Wars lately and would like to get a better idea how it works and what's going on.  How can I help?

Lael

[Ian O'Rourke]

GREAT suggestion. I'll be the GM guy. You be a player. Who else? Next two people, you're in. (And once there are two, everybody else back off!)

Arrhhh, crap - I was hoping to sit back and reap the rewards of everyone elses hard efforts rather than have to think, and subject people to my badly written posts.

Since I suggested it, I'll be equal(ish) partner so count me in. I'll take the risk of showing myself up by displaying my hackneyed ideas of what makes good drama and character premise/background/insert whatever we are calling it these days.

[AndyGuest]

As someone who's toying with HW, if not Glorantha, I'd really appreciate seeing this.

I'd also like it to include an explanation of hero questing, how it works, what it means and most importantly why you'd want to do it. From my reading it seems like players get to go on a heroquest and follow about the most railroaded adventure ever, where even they know every step along the way... I must be missing something because I just don't see the appeal.

[Ron Edwards]

Andy,

So is you in or is you out? So far it's Ian and Lael. Say the word, and we have a Go.

Best,
Ron

[AndyGuest]

Okay, I'll give it a go. I may need my hand holding along the way but I'd like to try.

[Ian O'Rourke]

Okay, I'll give it a go. I may need my hand holding along the way but I'd like to try.

Don't worry about that, that's sort of the point, as I'll need pushing to. You can check out the process if you want on the Sorcerer forum, it'll give some idea of how it went for that game.

This might be slightly different though, as that process stopped at character creation/kicker and then Ron described the process of using relationship maps.

Ideally, this would have a slant on actual implementation of the rules in play - easy for me to say, as I have actually no idea how you would accomplish that on the forum.

Anyway, it'll be interesting.

[Ron Edwards]

One, two, three, hug!

OK, here's the drill. I have very little agenda in my head at the moment. I'll simply lay out some of the things about the setting that I find most engaging, and name some areas that I have always liked, as well as summarize some time periods.

Basic idea: the Empire to the north wants a path to the southern sea. Unfriendly geography (Dragon Pass) and uncooperative cultures are in the way.

The Lunar Empire: cross Roman policy with Persian look/feel; consider a variety of cultures unified loosely, over the last few centuries, by an evangelist and complex new religion (Sedenya, the Red Goddess). Lunars range from smug to missionary to plain old militaristic.

The Heortlings: Celtic + Icelandic + smidgeon of ancient Greek. Heortlings are cranky, feisty, and loud.

Places in Dragon Pass:
- Sartar proper, a set of cities, holy places, and clan-controlled areas connected by roads; includes the city of Boldhome.
- Heortland, more or less the southern extension of Sartar with more cultural diversity.
- Esrolia, another southern area/country with a heavily modified Heortling culture, far more matriarchal.
- the Grazelands, occupied by a horse/nomad culture with close ties to the Beast People of Dragon Pass.
- Black Horse County, one of the Lunar land grants, given to a westerner-fellow who commands a troop of demonic horses. He's gained respect in the area from the Heortlings.
- various nasty places like Shadow Plateau, an icky swamp with a necromancer in the middle of it, and the unspeakable Snake Pipe Hollow.

Time periods:
1600-1615 or so - pure politics. The Lunar Empire tightens its fist on Dragon Pass and, for all anyone can tell, seizes and crushes it. Playing a Heortling means defying or collaborating an inexorable, terrifying invading culture, and losing. Magic, at this time, kind of rumbles and mutters through the conflict without being central to it.

1616-1625 or so - think of this as the occupational period ... mainly characterized, interestingly enough, by cultural mixing. A whole generation of Heortlings grow up heavily Lunarized, but far more nationalistic (rather than clan-centric) than they ever were before. It is also more overtly magical - the Lunars rely on horrifically powerful, escalating myth-magic to secure their hold on the area, and it backfires when a dragon unearths itself and EATS half their fucking army.

1626-1631 or so - war, war, war. Mythic artifacts are retrieved from the Other Side, heroes develop and clash on a level no one has imagined for centuries. Think the Iliad. The really terrifying thing is that the gods seem to have been invoked into reality, thus replacing the politics with pure fixed dogma ... but as time goes on, it turns out that the people who are Heroquesting are actually reshaping the myths to mean new things. Over the next decades, this process results in one person, Argrath, actually redefining the very nature of godhood itself. (Argrath is not a fixed NPC - if you play in this period, your own character may turn out to be him.)

To start out: the Point of Play is to generate your own Hero Band, which may be thought of as a political special interest group, perhaps primarily violent or military in nature but perhaps not, with a unique mystic/magical totem or "schtick." Yes, we create this in play. Your characters are, by definition, among the first people in Glorantha to define their religion by their values, instead of the other way around. That's what "hero wars" means.

Player/group decisions:

1) When and where? Any "where" is OK by me, but I happen to find the "middle" time period most interesting, myself, and much of Hero Wars published material is focused at that point.

2) What mix of peoples constitute the right choices for player-characters? Heortlings only, Lunars only, or mixed? Other people (Grazers, Black Horsers, etc)? What sort of Heortlings and Lunars (healthy diversity in each)? I'd prefer to avoid non-human player-characters.

3) Think just a bit about mobility and scope ... are we thinking about characters who travel all about as a unified group, or more of a place-specific situation? No need really to decide, just consider a bit. Remember that the "wandering adventurer" effectively does not exist in Glorantha.

My input? I like the Lunars more than most people do. I like the idea of Lunar and Heortling value-systems being forced to work together, generating, through play, a synthesis (middle-ground or extreme, doesn't matter) that can be the basis of a unique Hero Band.

Discuss. I'd like to take at least a couple of days for this stage of prep, so people can look at the maps in the books and muse through the HW material.

Best,
Ron

[AndyGuest]

Okay, so for my poor addled brain (and distinct lack of Glorantha knowledge), to draw a real world comparison the first period could be thought of as like the expansion of the roman empire and the second as akin to a period of occupation/colonisation by the romans ? (and the third has no real world equivalent !)

[Ayrizale]

The middle period looks fine to me.  Looks like a time when there would be much to do and a good place to start a story.

I would prefer a mix of peoples in the group.  To some degree it facilitates the presentation of the larger conflicts within a smaller setting.

I would be happy with something place-specific.  Since I don't have a good knowledge of Glorantha, it would be easier for me to get to know a single location well rather than try to keep up with the changing scenery.

I don't know if you are soliciting for character ideas yet, but from what I've read of the books so far, I would be interested in playing either a Lunar Sorcerer or a ... grr, can't remember the name ... Shaman of the Wolf Tribe (can't remember the name of the Wolf People or the kind of Animist they are, and I was just looking over that section earlier this week.)

As for a specific location, I would imagine that one of the more central locations: Sartar, Heortland, or Esrolia would suit the Lunar character better, while something closer to his home would suit the Shaman better.  But that is just my initial impressions.  Once I have the chance to get to my books and look over the other information that I have available, I may think differently.

Lael

[Ron Edwards]

Andy,

Well, we're talking about a pretty short time-period, so think of these thirty years or so as the final spasm of cultural conflict - contact, wars, and tentative occupations have actually been going on for centuries; this is pretty much that moment when the conflict really is going to go one way or the other (or more properly, synthesize in a way that changes everything, forever).

Lael (and others),

Let's get more specific in terms of locale? Right there in Dragon Pass (Sartar, Black Horse County, Grazelands)? South (Esrolia, Heortland)? Which specific place? No need to "know it all," just pick what sounds most interesting based on my description above. Or ask more questions about any of them that seem interesting.

Best,
Ron

[Ron Edwards]

Ian,

You wrote,
Ideally, this would have a slant on actual implementation of the rules in play - easy for me to say, as I have actually no idea how you would accomplish that on the forum.

At the moment, it may look as if I'm spending more time on group prep than on rules-situations, but trust me - we need this kind of shared emotional context in order to get into the rules at all.

Especially for Heroquesting. Just you guys wait.

Best,
Ron

[Ian O'Rourke]

I'll scan through my Hero Wars book tonight – though that is the only reference I have. Initially I viewed this as a disadvantage, but thinking about it I'm now confident it is an advantage – as I can then encounter the setting through my character, the protagonist, rather than bogging him or her down in simulationist baggage.

So, I'm setting ignorant compared to Ron – good thing.

My initial thoughts, since I have the time now, is to go for a mixed group which would probably demand the middle period – or at least it is the most accommodating of such factors. I also like to explore some of the issues in terms of magic in Hero Wars – both in terms of how it is described and approached, and implemented in actual play by the rules. The second period has a higher magical element.

As for location – any would be fine with me – I do find myself erring on the side of having a location element, in the sense that we are not wondering. A bad analogy would be Deep Space Nine rather the Next Generation. The location could be important, a character in itself, part of the myth we create. Not sure, may be talking shite.

[Ron Edwards]

Ian,

Not shite at all, you're right on target. Unless Andy disagrees, it looks as if a site-specific, about-the-place approach is what we're developing.

Check out the maps here, and if you have it, see the map in the Glorantha HW book (it's the best Dragon Pass map ever). Don't get hung up on trying to learn the maps; just find the places I've mentioned and that's enough.

Best,
Ron