101 part 2: where and who

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

I figure it's time to start a new thread; the first one was kind of big and it sets the Task at Hand pretty well. Let's get specific now.

Andy, Lael, and Ian are the players, I'm the GM. We're talking about Dragon Pass, near the Dragon's Eye, putatively not too far from Grazer territory and smack in Telmori territory, or what used to be. Please note that this is semi-Lunar-dominated territory. Over the last couple of decades (after the Telmori were especially obnoxious to their neighbors), things have changed a lot. Jomes Hostralos, a Lunar warrior, basically smashed and dominated the tribe, killing their greatest champion. The Telmori still exist as a free tribe, but they're pretty scattered and the area isn't really under their governing control. (Note that their "governing control" pretty much consisted of letting the land run wild anyway.)

Who could be there? Just about anyone. Lunar immigrants may have received a land grant there, which frankly was kind of a shitty deal as they are landed with still-extant angry werewolves, totally fallow and untended farmland, friggin' dragonewts showing up unexpectedly, probably a few rebel Heortlings who scattered into the area, and tenuous at best support from any centralized Lunar authority.

I totally like the idea of a special site or geographical feature that's important to the whole saga. But not in a metaplot way, just come up with why anyone in the area would be committed to its integrity.

A Lunar sorcerer almost certainly would play a military role, unless he or she was interested in some kind of magical resource or lore to explore. I think various Telmori would cover the whole range, from plain old acquiescence to the Lunars ("Hell, they beat our champion. I'm with them."), to functional if not respectful community oriented ("All I care about is that we live together decently, and the Sartarite nationals and your Red Goddess can both kiss my ass."), to outright rebellion ("Call me a werewolf? Fine. I'll eat your sheep and maybe you, too."). Grazers might be a bit harder to understand, but then again, perhaps they're dealing with the Lunars too. Personally, I like the idea of a Lunarized Heortling who's doing soldier duty there.

Anyway, Blake was right in saying that HW doesn't work well if you do the Garbage Salad approach to characters; they have to spin out of a community or from a meeting of communities. Keep that in mind, and we're all set as we move into PC creation.

Ian, Lael, Andy? What sort of folks might you consider? I recommend thinking in terms of plain old drama from Lit 101 - these people have friends, family, and a place to live, and they have some hard choices to make and reasons to try to get along.

My plan is to set this stuff up in this thread, and then to start a third thread all about handling the larger-scale rules of Hero Wars - magic in action, scenario prep for community conflict, showing how Hero Bands get formed, dealing with character improvement, and eventually heroquesting.

Best,
Ron

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

One more point, a pretty serious one.

Don't be afraid to make up "special" characters. By which I mean, any of the following:

Marked from Birth - e.g., say your character was born dead, but his mother committed a shocking self-sacrifice to Ana Gor, feared goddess of human sacrifice ... and the child lived. The character may or may not know this. This is just an example of anything that would be a tipoff, to the "reader," that this character is going to be some kind of major deal.

Moral Choice - e.g., say your character had done or resolved something pretty damn important or scary, in a way that affected the lives of dozens of people. Maybe there was a feud, and your character killed ... well, just about everybody on the other side, because no other path to peace seemed possible. Clan politics since then have never been the same, but the feud was ended for good. Again, this is just an example. Others might include someone who married across Heortling-Lunar lines and killed the priest who forbade it - then was absolved by a powerful ritual.

Unusual Experiences - e.g., say your character had actually lived with dragonewts for a summer, or perhaps travelled all the way to the southern peninsula called God Forgot and seen the amazing things there, or maybe he fought a chaos monster near Snake Pipe Hollow and now uses its jawbone as a powerful magical talisman. Remember, you have five abilities to define for yourself; if one of them is "magic spear," or "dragonewt spirit pal," no one's to stop you.

None of these are required. Any of them, and anything like them, is completely "legal" and totally allowed. This isn't Harnmaster; you don't have to say, "Durrr, I'm a shepherd" and be done.

Best,
Ron

[Ian O'Rourke]

Okay, how are we doing this? Just a flow of ideas at this point or are we looking for the 100 word descriptions, etc?

[Ian O'Rourke]

My style of play focuses on one issue: character relationships. Everything is defined by it in my GM'ing (when I was GM'ing) and my playing. As a result, I often start out with creating a few of these core relationships and my 'mega-background shit' comes out from that (such as having visited Dragonewts or destroyed a tribe, etc), or even it doesn't it at least ensures I have the relationship stuff in. This is one reason I like Hero Wars, in theory, as it defines those relationships in play and they become useable facets of the game at system level.

Be warned TV show and movie analogies may follow - sometimes it helps me get straight to the point.

I was going to go for a Heortling charater, since it is the culture I am most familiar with due the fact they have Celtic influences. He would also counter the Lunar character that may already be in the game. He can be a member of one of the rebel tribes mentioned in the original post of this thread.

The goal is to construct a Buffy/Faith dynamic, or if you don't watch that show a Batman/Catwoman dynamic. I know, bad analogy time, but basically the intention is for the character to have found the love of his life, and she was his, but events happened to split them up and put them on apposing sides. As I write this I'm conscious of Ron's don't write the story rule?

I was thinking of having the significant other (for want of a better term at this point) be a Herotling woman he grew up with, but I like the idea of the forbidden marriage as a catalyst for driving other background stuff and being the driver for conflict, possibly the one that now has them as enemies (or are they?). As a result, she could be a Lunar woman, and also potentially provide a link to another Lunar character.

Why are the enemies now? I'm working on that, but the intention is that they still actually love each other, but may be society has made them enemies? Or may be something horrible has happened that has resulted in the Lunar significant other seeking to protect herself from further harm by treading a 'path of darkness'? Or may be events conspired to have my character betray her, so she is now on this downward spiral and she can't trust my character to save her?

I'm still thinking, but we basically have a Heortling character who married a Lunar, they shared a love that few ever possess, but this caused some sort of significant event, such as a war/fued with another Heortling tribe or a war within the tribe? This results in the Lunar women setting of an a path that puts her at odds with my character (she is may be Hero on a descent into darkness, while I'm still on the upward journey - different points in the mythical cycle which results in us being at odds).

May be the marriage was prophesised on my characters birth, as a union that would lead to great things for the tribe (and may be it eventually will, though it obviously does not seem so now)?

Needs further work. Crap. Okay. Good?

[Ron Edwards]

Ian,

It sounds like you're taking the Moral Choice option. And you're right to be concerned about the over-writing side of things, as you're treading dangerously close to playing before you play.

History: married across the Lunar-Heortling line. No problem. Realize that this can happen fully within the Heortling culture, with no need for the woman to be Dara Happan or foreign in any way. That's because Lunar missionaries and political treaties have been around for at least a century, to one extent or another.

To keep it simplest, it could be a very basic marriage that split (not dissolved) when the woman went "one way" and the husband went "the other." Yet they don't want to lose one another. Excellent! I love it. Don't worry about the "hero" or myth side yet.

I also hasten to add that Lael and Andy are just as much "authorities" in terms of reacting to this idea as I am. I don't want this to be like a bad classroom discussion in which the dialogue goes student, instructor, other student, instructor, student 3, instructor, etc.

Best,
Ron

[AndyGuest]

Okay Here's a first pass.

Personally, I like the idea of a Lunarized Heortling who's doing soldier duty there.

Funky, I'd considered something along these lines (drawing on Roman occupation type stuff again) but dismissed it as being too short a time period, but since it's not I'll drag it back in again ;-).

My thoughts go something along these lines. The son of a Heortling chief, his clan was defeated by the Lunars when he was a child. He has grown up under Lunar domination. Despite losing their freedom they've actually prospered. The older members of the clan hate the lunars, the younger members are split between following their elders and the opportunities available with the lunars. He came of age and trained with the warriors. Still unsure if he wanted to follow the old ways or the new he chose to join a lunar army. A few other young warriors have joined him. Their motives are mixed, some want to learn more about their enemy, others are lunar-philes.

Linking in to the other characters should be easy enough. He could be from the same clan as the other Heortling or his love. Being in the lunar army will give him connection to any lunar character.

Hooks/specials - I've got a few ideas, nothing I've settled on though. Something to do with why his clan weren't wiped out, why his father surrendered ? Not sure, still mulling that over. I like the idea of the son despising his father for the choices he made then having to make the same choices himself. Maybe he was a twin and the lunars took his twin away to ensure that the tribe would behave. Maybe he knows about his twin, maybe not. Actually I really like the twin idea.

[Ayrizale]

I think that I'm going to go with the Lunar Sorcerer.  The character that I have in mind would have been born to a Lunar mother that had become pregnant by a Heortling Warrior.  She gave birth to triplets under a strange sign, possibly a Solar Eclipse.  The first child was born under the full darkness of the ecplise, the second child during a partial eclipse, and the last was born after the eclipse was over.  The "Child Born in Darkness" would be my character and would have returned to the Lunar Empire with his mother at a very young age.  The other two children remained with their father.

   I'm not sure if the conception of the children was consensual, though his mother could have been a missionary as you mentioned.  My character would have been trained in the Lunar Empire and has returned to the lands of his birth through the military action.  Perhaps my brothers could have made names for themselves in the tribe that the other characters come from?  Or possibly, we have the same father and are half-brothers?

Lael

[Ian O'Rourke]

First passes are all in- are these all enough to start with - do we need to add more detail? What do people think?

With respect to the half brothers thing, I'm fine with that, though it might be a bit more than Ron was wanting. All being family might be a bit - much? Freely willing to discuss though. Open mind and everything.

Another options is for one of your triplets to be the woman I married, Lael?

Or may be the connecting factor is purely external - such as the mythical place, or a strange memory we all share?

Any of these, or some connection completely different, is all fine with me :)

[Ayrizale]

With respect to the half brothers thing, I'm fine with that, though it might be a bit more than Ron was wanting. All being family might be a bit - much? Freely willing to discuss though. Open mind and everything.

It might be too much, but it would certainly give the group a tie to each other.

Another options is for one of your triplets to be the woman I married, Lael?

You know, I had not even thought of one of the triplets being female, my assumption had been all males, but that might very well be an interesting twist.  Depends on if we want more or less NPCs running around.  If we want more, then perhaps the woman you married ran away with one of my triplets or was related to them (and my character) in some way.  Admitidly it is only one NPC more or less, but it might change things a little.  Especially if my triplets were identical triplets, then every time your character loooked at mine, he would see the face of the man that stole his wife.

Or may be the connecting factor is purely external - such as the mythical place, or a strange memory we all share?

Speaking of the Mythical Place.  Unless Ron already has some ideas that he has settled on, perhaps we should start bouncing ideas around about what makes this place so special.  I'll see what I can do to get that started.  Some or all of these may not really fit with Glorantha, I'm still a little hazy on many of the details of the setting, but maybe there will be some ideas worth mining here.

* An Ancient Dragonewt Burial Ground that was lost to the Dragonewts long ago, but has recently been unearthed by Lunar Forces.

* The site of a god's birth and ascension to power

* The Middle World analog to the resting place of a powerful Telmori Wolf spirit.

* A buried ruin created by an ancient order of Sorcerers

* The location of a Lost Artifact of Orlanth.  The artifact was lost during one of the more commonly known heroquests and the location and story of the artifact was never known.  Perhaps retracing the path of the artifact from the known heroquest to its current location is part of our story.  Perhaps the known heroquest had something to do with the dragonewts and the artifact was lost in an encounter with them.  And to find out what happened to the artifact we have to deal with the dragonewts.

That's about all I have right now.

Later,

Lael

[AndyGuest]

I don't really know enough about Glorantha to be able to offer any specifics about locations but I can comment on what I'd like to get out of the location (so to speak).

I'd like the location to present a dilemma for my character, a focus to his doubts and trouble deciding between the old ways and the new. An artifact that can make or break whichever side gains control, secrets that could shift the balance in either way, something along those lines.

I guess what I mean is I'm happy for the location itself to be a maguffin (for my character at least), I'd like it to dominate the story without it actually being that important in and of itself (does that make any sense ?)

[AndyGuest]

As for character interactions, I think they'll fall easily into place without trying to be too contrived.

On the other hand one character being a twin and another being a triplet, both separated from each of their siblings at an early age does seem a little contrived ;-). Unless of course we all play siblings or we focus the story on the different paths of life and highlight that by showing how siblings who make different choices end up different (or possibly even the same).

On the other hand I'm happy enough to drop the missing twin concept, I want to concentrate on the father relationship and on the choices the father made.

[Ayrizale]

As for character interactions, I think they'll fall easily into place without trying to be too contrived.

On the other hand one character being a twin and another being a triplet, both separated from each of their siblings at an early age does seem a little contrived ;-). Unless of course we all play siblings or we focus the story on the different paths of life and highlight that by showing how siblings who make different choices end up different (or possibly even the same).

On the other hand I'm happy enough to drop the missing twin concept, I want to concentrate on the father relationship and on the choices the father made.

One of the problems that I've always had with players in my games is that they are never willing to come up with characters that fit together.  Which is more contrived?  That we are all related either through blood or circumstance, or that we meet in a bar and decide to trust each other with our lives?  I admit that those two are fairly extreme examples, but I would rather give the characters strong reasons to work together than simply assuming that such reasons will come out in play.

If I'm reading things correctly, we are already talking about a Heortling, a Heortling Lunar Sympathiser, and a Lunar Sorcerer working together.  We are going to need a strong reason for them to work together rather than fighting amongst themselves.

Or maybe I'm just overreacting based on my personal experiences.  I'll go along with the majority on this one.

Later,

Lael

[Ian O'Rourke]

With respect to the location, and I'm not overly concerned what it is other than it should be important and have some sort of emotional resonance for all the characters - i.e it should probably be a relationship trait. Quite interested in a few of the above, though we must take care not to de-mistify it.

As for the character connections, I'm fine with many that have been mentioned. We can see what the fourth voice has to say and move on from that point.

[Blake Hutchins]

These all sound like good concepts.  The family relationships don't bother me, but I'm puzzled why they'd have to be sibling.  Having a more distant relationship works just as well, unless you really want to work on the premise through the closest bonds of blood ties.  I tend to aim at Kubasik's goal of maximizing the potential for meaningful (in terms of story) conflict, so I'd steer it toward closer blood ties myself.

Without overwriting, I'd like to know more about why the cross-cultural marriage/affair failed.  Was there a betrayal or apparent betrayal?  Did one or the other get enough involved in sectarian politics to drive a wedge between the lovers?  Is the the source of division an external problem or an internal problem?

I do miss the Telmori idea, but you've all come up with excellent starting points.  The spectrum of Heortling-Lunar Sympathizer-Lunar offers a lot of potential.

Best,

Blake

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

My current thinking is that "He's my brother and there's this triplet sister" business is too tightly linked. In a real game, I'd let it be up to you guys, but for our hypothetical model exercise, let's loosen it up a little. I have rules-reasons for this: I want to show you how multiple relationships can play a role in the game, and if we reduce the relationship-variety by collapsing it into one family, we lose a lot of potential for illustrating that point.

Anyway, here's all that needs to happen for PC creation and to finish this thread. For each character:

1) The three keywords: Culture, Occupation, Magic [each provides a ton of abilities, no need to list them]

2) The five you-pick-it abilities

3) Name the two abilities that get a 1w, and the one ability that gets a 5w. Note that these three are picked out of ALL of your abilities, whether they came from keywords or from step #2.

4) State the character's goal.

Lael
Lunar sorcerer born to Heortling father; two siblings, doesn't know them. I strongly suggest that they not be the player-characters. I am happy to suggest that one of the siblings be an important NPC; perhaps the character has already met him. Use the Dara Happan keywords (notice that you have a wide range of occupational keywords to choose from) and take Makkabeus for Magic.

Andy
Semi-lunarized Heortling warrior. This is interesting because you'd take the Seven Mothers keyword for Magic (probably Yanafal Tarnils) but otherwise have the Heortling Culture keyword. You might want to create kind of a hybrid keyword from Soldier (Dara Happa) and Warrior (Heortling). I suggest that this character be from a different area of Dragon Pass and not linked in via clan or family.

Ian
Heortling rebel-sort but married across Lunarized lines. This one is most straightforward; take one of the Orlanthi fighting cults for the Magic keyword. I also like the idea of some contact still occurring between husband and wife, no need for them to be totally estranged.

So folks, I see a very easy and straightforward situation here. Everyone seems into the "Dragonewt magic" thing. Fine; Dragon Pass is dotted with these edifices called "dragonewt plinths" which are just full o'power and weirdness. Basically, it all comes down to whom the dragonewts, in their odd and funky way, are going to permit to live and function in the area as a society. It's not like they understand or give a shit about Lunar politics, and these aren't "exiled" dragonewts who understand stuff like money and jobs. These are unreconstructed whacked dragonewts who have to be dealt with on their terms alone.

And we could come up with a whole myth about this one particular dragonewt plinth and why it's such a big deal to the area. Trust me; I'm good at that stuff. For now, say we have such a thing.

Remember, you are not creating a "group." This is why Hero Wars is neither a squad game requiring tightly-linked pre-set ties nor a meet-in-the-bar contrived thing. Think in terms of the community and the people dealing with one another there, and that's all we need. A lot of NPCs have cropped up already: a Lunar older woman, two of her children, at least one set of Lunar military units, a group of rebel or semi-rebel Heortlings (notice that they mix into the "subjected" populace quite easily), and the wife character. That's plenty for a GM to work with, especially one with a lot of relationship-map experience, to keep links plausible and not over-contrived.

Best,
Ron