Dice pool history

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Ron,

I think Ghostbusters beat it to the bunch with the dice pools, but that's of little importance. It definitely is the definitive dice pool game.

[Andrew Martin]

Hi there,
If I'm not mistaken, Star Wars was the first "dice pool" game. The number on the sheet was simply the number of D6's you picked up and rolled. No adding attribute to the total. No trying to roll under the attribute. It was just, "Pick up and roll."

I think White Wolf game system for Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, etc, was the first dice pool system (where a number of dice are rolled and the number of dice rolling over a target number is the important factor).

WEG Star Wars was developed from the system in WEG's Ghostbusters, which was roll a number of D6 equal to the points in a attribute, plus 3 dice for a talent.

[Andrew Martin]

P.S. Andrew, Star Wars predates Vampire, et al.,  by a wide margin, but you knew that, right? I think we might be stumbling over definitions of "dice pool." That term refers to using a number of dice as indicated by a number of some kind. One guy rolls four dice to nail the other guy, the other guy's rolling seven. That's a dice pool. Target numbers or not, other modifiers or not, etc, are all secondary. It's distinct from previous systems because in those, target numbers varied widely but the number of dice rolled was fixed for any character, any time.

I've assumed that a dice pool refers to White Wolf's system of rolling a number of dice, and comparing the individual dice to a target number. You're right, your definition is better. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Paganini]

Ron,

I think Ghostbusters beat it to the bunch with the dice pools, but that's of little importance. It definitely is the definitive dice pool game.

Actually, if Ron is counting D6 (an additive system) as a dice pool, then Tunnels and Trolls has all you young whippersnappers beat cold. :)

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

The above posts were split from the Erm ... hello thread in Actual Play, and it might be a little confusing 'cause some of the original points are still there, mixed in with posts that couldn't be legitimately split out.

Nathan, good call. Tunnels & Trolls is definitely the first dice-pool system. I can't believe I forgot that.

Best,
Ron

[Paganini]

Nathan, good call. Tunnels & Trolls is definitely the first dice-pool system. I can't believe I forgot that.

Ahh... the Great One has praised me! I feel all warm and fuzzy! <grin>


<Bit OT T&T Nostalgia>
Actually, I probably would have forgotten it too, except I just had it out the other day when I was fiddling with a Dungeon Crawl game idea. Of all the games I own / have read, I think T&T is one of the ones with the most style in terms of design and writing. I'm not saying it's a great *game,*  but it sure is fun to read. My boxed set has this brutal solo adventure by Mike Stackpole called City of Terrors. Whew... :)
<End BOTT&TN>

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Of course, the dice pool is an old wargame mechanic from long ago. Being that RPGs gre out of wargaming, it was only a matter of time before they'd turn up in a RPG.

The original (3rd ed) of Chainmail uses a dice pool. And since D&D was originally meant to be a suppliment for Chainmail, doesn't this make D&D the first RPG to use dice pools?

No, me either. But it bears mentioning for some reason.