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Started by GreatWolf, June 07, 2007, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: Ron Edwards on May 29, 2007, 04:56:18 PMAll that said, I am still quite motivated to play a game of Wraith one of these days. That's the only one of that original pack which seems to me to have put its money where its mouth is.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on June 07, 2007, 02:23:08 PMFor instance, in reading the original Vampire, my first call would be to throw out anything and everything about the "clans" and only play with (and about) Caitiffs. When I say throw out, I don't mean just saying "you can't play that," I mean removing it entirely from any and every aspect of play and the setting.
QuoteIn other words, all the clan stuff is just plain distracting - I mean, for Pete's sake, my character drinks people's blood and may well kill them! Why in the world would clique-y based conflicts and who becomes the Prince and yip-yap about identity politics matter, in comparison?
QuoteWhite Wolf's factions don't help Narritivist play because they don't allow addressing moral and personal dilemma's because they are fixed into place and the games mechanics don't actually do anything with them to cause you to have to address any issues based on factions. To further compound they distract from addressing the main issues the game claims to be about which is an examination of man becoming a predatory, cannibalistic, monster in order to survive, and what it means to be human. Compound interest is collected if you actually try to address that premise because the game basically punishes a Narritivist player by restricting their choices via it's humanity rules, restricting the players ability to respond meaningfully.
QuoteSo it's not that having factions gets in the way of Narritivist play, when the game makes you address those factions and what they mean. In other words it makes being part of a faction an important choice that is going to cause you to examine the moral and social aspects of those factions.
QuoteI think this was what I found it confusing as it seemed to me the factions could be rife with issues, and I was thinking games that examine issues equals Narritivism. When it seems it's actually a little more subtle than that. I think this last bit is why I haven't responded as I'm still trying to figure this part out.
QuoteI'm thinking I may understand better now, the division is based on decisions isn't it? A Narritivist game is setting up a game where I will be able to address moral and social dilemmas, and the decisions will be based around what I want. In a Simulationist game the decisions are based on the established fiction, there can be dilemmas here, but I'm going to make decisions from the point of view of the fiction. So the factions might help set up dilemmas that could be interesting from a Sim focus, but they aren't interesting from a Nar focus because the perspective is created from the fiction not the player. Am I getting closer, or is my mind leading me astray?