Steal this pdf! (possible business model)

[Seth M. Drebitko]

     So the free but not worthless thread gave me an idea, what if you promoted a free ad supported pdf via file share sites and such. The pdf could have a header or footer set to communicate to a mysql database or some such which would then display a banner ad, probably something like adsense. This would mean no matter how many people “stole” your game you could always make even a small amount of profit from people viewing. Aside from this you could set it up so people could purchase the pdf as an ad free book. A model like this would be incredibly awesome for a ransom style set up, as after the ransom was collected you could still gain some change here and there to cover continued maintenance.

     My idea (and mind you this is off my very basic understanding of php thus far) is to create a hyperlink to an image, that image would be a link to a page only created to track hits, and then redirect the person to the banners respective site. In this way the mysql database would supply the current advertisers image, if clicked it would then track that a person used it to get to the advertisers site, and then at the end of the month you provide your report to the person purchasing the ad space.

     Now this would pretty much mean that you could not include things like adsense and would have to solicit your own ads, but would be a simple way to do things(I think). I know I would not mind downloading pdfs that displayed say a banner in the header, and was only active when I opened it.

I would like to specifically discuss:
- Methods of executing the above idea
- Thoughts on executing the marketing
- Opinions regarding the idea
- Anything else you would like to bring up

Regards, Seth

[GregStolze]

In the future, everything will be stealable, copieable, and advertised-upon.

-G.

[rekyl]

The biggest problem I've noticed is that the ad-industry would have to be extremely more sensitive to its customer groups. This is already happeing of course (like the ATM machines we have here (Sweden) that have direct advertisment thats being displayed on the screen depending on the time of day, the amount you take out and in what area the machine is).

I had, in another thread, an idea about a pamphlet-game being distributed at conventions. This game would be free and printed on cheap ass paper but would contain ads from campanies that would be interested in getting some direct contact with our specific customer group (ie geeks). The problem is of course that unless you have a capital to take from (which I dont) you can't print the first issue of the pamphlet-game as a loss to show its effectiveness and there are some problems with proving the ads effectiveness to the customers (the companies who would put their ads in it in this case).

The big issue is how you would get in contact with these companies that would place the ads there, explain that its not some random internet-ad thing since this has a more continuing effect on the readers (unlike internet ads that, to be honest few of us even remember seconds after we've seen them) and how you could make these comapnies take a risk with your game... I guess all thats needed are some contacts or some damn fine sales pitching.

Greg:
The future is now. All things are already easily stolen, downloaded and free. The only thing that seperates us from this truth is the thin vener of our common ideological hegemony. How to change the situation from theft to free and individual to group effort is a question for sales people or revolutionaries.

/Jens

[guildofblades]

If someone wanted to have an advertisement pulled from a server or web page or html page load inside a page on a PDF, how would one go about putting that into the PDF.

I love the concept. Just didn't know it was possible.

Thanks,
Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com

[David Artman]

I am certain that you could setup a PDF download server function that generates (i.e. "distills") the PDF on the fly, embedding a custom advertisement each time (and, thus, gaining you an ad view in your stats for the ad resolver).

I am not very certain that you can have "active" content in a PDF, that is, content which is not "baked" into the PDF but is rather an embedded HTTP request (gaining an ad view every time its open... or even on every page turn--if it's possible at all, why not go for maximal ad views?). If you can find a way to do this, PLEASE let us know--it would be perfect for shotGLASS--hell, I might go all-free PDFs, too, if it works.

But my understanding is that PDF is intentionally non-volatile, because its meant to be a format for electronic "documentation of record." It kind of flies in the face of the PDF concept, to have it contain variable, active, embedded content.

But I'd love to be proven wrong! I'll ask the FrameUsers list; there's some geniuses on that list....
David

[guildofblades]

yeah, I will do some digging around on the topic as well.

The ability to stick a randomly generated ad on some or all pages of a PDF that is freely distributed would indeed be awesome. Heck, even games that are not freely distributed, the ability to have an ad spot or two and keep it fresh with whatever products or promotions we might have going at the moment would be awesome too.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com

[Seth M. Drebitko]

I had, in another thread, an idea about a pamphlet-game being distributed at conventions. This game would be free and printed on cheap ass paper but would contain ads from companies that would be interested in getting some direct contact with our specific customer group (ie geeks). The problem is of course that unless you have a capital to take from (which I don’t) you can't print the first issue of the pamphlet-game as a loss to show its effectiveness and there are some problems with proving the ads effectiveness to the customers (the companies who would put their ads in it in this case).

I like this idea but the goal and hope would be to create a hopefully viral and continued trickle, after all enough trickles and you have a stream. So I would say a snazzy little free cd hand out would be great for this. Of course you can take donations from those willing but honestly factoring cd case, cd, slip, and the cd image sticker would cost a little less than a dollar a pop, in an order of 100 or more. You would have to be the one to do all the work but even figuring 1-2 ads per cd clicked you made your money back, and that does not include the number of people that get copies of those cds.

The big issue is how you would get in contact with these companies that would place the ads there, explain that its not some random internet-ad thing since this has a more continuing effect on the readers (unlike internet ads that, to be honest few of us even remember seconds after we've seen them) and how you could make these companies take a risk with your game... I guess all that’s needed are some contacts or some damn fine sales pitching.

Well honestly if it was able to be set up so that updated live info could be provided you could set your database to display like google ads or whatever in place of your own, and then obtain ads from people who approach you. You could even use services who place your listings like adbrite to solicit your ads, and when you have no direct clients you can display the third party ads.

I love the concept. Just didn't know it was possible.

Well right now I am not sure if it can be done, honestly computers were meant for people to hack and crack them to their will so it's plausible you could do it some how. I just found this site   http://www.planetpdf.com/index.asp so I plan on digging through it.

But my understanding is that PDF is intentionally non-volatile, because its meant to be a format for electronic "documentation of record." It kind of flies in the face of the PDF concept, to have it contain variable, active, embedded content.

Yea I am gonna try and look into other file formats and see if something else might work better.

Overall I think this method (when capable) gives a great amount of both flexibility, and longevity. I mean the cd idea alone I like because you don't need to have a booth at a con to make any money. You run a hundred cd's up with a couple books on each pass them out and take some donations here and their. Over all you pay a hundred for the cd's and say $20-25 in donations. So for $75 you got some nice beautiful product out there and people are making you money without even having to have paid anything in.  

Regards, Seth

[guildofblades]

Between early 2002 and the end of 2004 we gave away a very large number of our Worlds of Heroes & Tyrants free PDF. I would have to dig around again for the exact numbers, but it was simply an experiment to show us the potential power of distribution via give aways on the internet. In that time, we gave away well more than 1 million copies. If memory serves, it may have surpassed 2 million, but I honestly don't remember the exact figure.

The power of the internet is the potential free flow of information. A million or ten million (or whatever) copies of something can be given away for pennies. Compared to a dollar per CD, that seems a great deal more attractive. I would think any ad supported CD give away would have to go that extra mile and drive the CD stamping cost down through volume. 10,000 or more CDs to get that price down into the $.25 range. But unless I could target those at extremely focused groups, seems to me online distribution has both the broader reach and almost no cost.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com

[Seth M. Drebitko]

Oh for sure, but as far as a say you running demos at cons, and having everyone that participates get a cd or something, not to bad as a method to getting the word out. Your main focus would be funneling people to the online content, as well as those dedicated fans who will still purchase a hard copy.
Regards, Seth

[Simon C]

Why use PDF?  Why not use an html file which can contain a link to a banner ad easily?  And why make people download the file individually? Why not just host it at a single location?

In other words, why not just have a website?

[David Artman]

Aside from the obvious problem (can't get online = can't read game rules), HTML/website/wiki is actually a solid idea. Further, after asking at FrameUsers, it seems there's no real way to do an embedded ad revolver in a PDF to get unique IP views. The best anyone could come up with is some chain of Flash animation embed calling your site's revolver, which would mean (if I understood correctly) that the requests all come from your server (i.e. not good for revenue).

Too bad, really....
David

[Seth M. Drebitko]

  Hello folks I did not forget about this thread or idea and have been looking around myself. PDF’s are out of the question though I did locate a new file type http://www.dnaml.com/ which offers some nice looking product. The software is a bit on the costly end, though it is quite flexible. It appears to use a document format that communicates with the web to display certain features. There is a version of the software that can be used to create versions of these files that can from the creators control panel on their desktop update people pdfs, apparently from a single copy of the file to a group, or all at once allowing you to personalize content. I am going to look into this a bit more before I consider a purchase as it has a hefty price tag of $1500.
  I might just purchase the product if I find it is capable of what I want done and set something up where I would create the files for other people to host there ads through for a couple bucks. Creating the formats and charging a bit of a fee would allow people to save on the 1,500 price tag and let myself (if I purchase the product) lick my wounds from the purchase, after all some one has to pay the price. I will update when I get some more info, until then see you all later.

Regards, Seth

[David Artman]

Seth, that sounds REALLY interesting...

My only concern (so far) is the "internal DRM and payment gateway combination"--on the one hand, the try before buy is cool; but I'd want to know if there is a middleman network for that (or if I host it myself) and who runs that network and how reliable and permanent they are/will be. Look closely under the hood before you drop that kind of cash (which is barely less than the whole Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium!).

[Seth M. Drebitko]

 

My only concern (so far) is the "internal DRM and payment gateway combination"--on the one hand, the try before buy is cool; but I'd want to know if there is a middleman network for that (or if I host it myself) and who runs that network and how reliable and permanent they are/will be.

  Right now myself and a friend are looking to set up the following (on our own servers):
-A digital site similar to rpgnow.com but designed completely around DNL file type products
-Through flash inserts the free books will be able to have ad support which will allow the publisher to benefit from all the members of a group having a product instead of say just the game master.
-Publishers will be encouraged to have something set up where individual users can through the book itself purchase "bonus content" this will allow the user to have access to say an extra three races, and have ads removed. Once they pay their keyed copy of the book updates itself to the new version.
-We would also look to set up an arrangement with a POD printer who we would use as a sole printer and distributor (in hopes of discounts with larger volume) by having all of the hard copy sales coming from one central creator, and distributor it will help to cut corners on storage and delivery services.

Look closely under the hood before you drop that kind of cash (which is barely less than the whole Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium!).

This is definitely one of the things we have considered. I am looking to set something up where we can gain a license that will allow us to have user accounts (most likely at some sort of royalty charge) that allow others to utilize many of the software features strictly through our site.

  Obviously right now this is all very (very) much in the development but it is ultimately our long term goal. In our opinion it will really help to cut back on the effects of an oversaturated market as far as self published games go. There are just far to many start ups, with a dozen or so small products to try out as many as you really want, and with the above situation it allows both publisher and consumers to benefit.

regards, Seth

[David Artman]

Let us know when you get it all setup--if it's soon enough for GLASS, you might change my entire distribution model and one of my revenue channels.

Thanks;
David