Standard Publishing Font

[JohnG]

Ok so this may be totally the wrong place for the question but I was just curious what the "standard" or at least most common font and font size are for RPGs?  I only ask because I'm doing my first draft in Arial font size 10 and I seem to type and type and each time the number of pages goes up 1 I do a little dance.  I find myself trying to figure out what I'm missing because I'm typing all kinds of stuff and all these other books are like 10 times my number of current pages.

[Ben Lehman]

There is no "standard" size. Print type tends to range between 9-12 points in a variety of fonts. You're certainly working at the small end of the spectrum with Arial 10, but really "page number" doesn't matter until you start actually laying out the game, at which time the pages will totally change. A better measure for text length is word count, which has the added bonus of not mattering what font you use to write in.

The standard "big fat RPG book" with lots of three column tiny type at 8 1/2 x 11 is 100K-200K words. The standard "indie RPG book," which is digest sized and single column is 20-50K words. A smallish indie RPG is 10K words. For reference to my own books (which I can word count, being as I have them right here), Polaris is 30,000 words, Bliss Stage is 35,000.

yrs--
--Ben

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Ben's right in that there's no standard. Twice in role-playing publishing history, book design and general look/usage have converged on particular font sizes and appearances, once for Champions and once for Vampire, but even then, in each case, there were many exceptions and the trend didn't last. We're currently in an age of extreme experimentation, so it's best to think deeply about what text will work best for your specific project, and never mind what any other book does.

That said, if anyone knows the font sizes and typefaces for Champions 3rd edition and Vampire (let's say 2nd edition, at a guess), I'd be interested to know.

Also, the typeface adds another variable to the decision the publisher must make. Two typefaces with the same font-size number can be two very different actual sizes on the page. Matt Snyder posted a good little essay about it, What's your type?, in his blog Heads or Tales.

Best, Ron

[Vulpinoid]

If you have a look at most typography websites, you'll find a few common guidelines for font usage.

These aren't hard and fast rules, but accepted conventions.

There are two general types of fonts, Serif and Sans-serif. To use some commonly known examples, Times/New Roman and Garamond are Serif fonts, while Arial and Helvetica are sans-serif fonts.

Studies have shown that long passages of text are easier to read when written in serif fonts (so you'll find most novels use these). Quick, punchy text, such as headings and titles has more impact in a sans-serif font.

In general it's considered bad form and too "busy" if you try to use more than 2 fonts in a piece of work. Use one for the titles and another for the body text. Or if you are going to use three or more fonts make sure they belong to the same family (Bold, italic or regular versions of the same font).

I'd suggest that if you want a work to have a specific theme or flavour, use an elaborate or decorative font for the titles, but something plain for the body.

As for size, that all depends on the readers and general layout. Anything larger than 12 point tends to look immature, anything smaller than 9 can lead to heavy reding and people who put the book down fairly often between sessions of reading. Sizes change depending on the font type, so this can be hard to judge. Generally though, there are 72 points to an inch so a 12 point font size should have six lines of text per inch.

That's just a bit of background on fonts, from a few years of design study and calligraphy.

The more you break these conventions, the more memorable your work may become. But remember that you want the work to be memorable for good reasons, so consider carefully how you tread outside those lines.

V

 

[Lance D. Allen]

I had Palatino Linotype recommended to me as a good body font, and I rather like it. It's airier than Times New Roman, so I believe I'm getting away with 10pt in my current projects.

Whether that's a standard, I have no idea. Probably not. But it works.

[Ben Lehman]

Hey, Dana: Are you in the layout phase of your project, and looking for advice choosing fonts and so on? Or are you just wondering about the length of the text that you're writing?

I'm asking because this thread is filling up with font opinions, which aren't particularly useful unless you're looking to do your actual layout right now.

yrs--
--Ben

[MatrixGamer]

As to type size - being an old guy - I want to put a plug in for 12 point and no lower. 10 point type can be hard to read, especially if it is in a single column that is 4 inches wide.

When you are doing your layout another thing to keep in mind is that large margins also make it easier to read.

Recently I've been liking Poor Richard and Oxford fonts. They give a classy feel. My stuff is usually historical (19th century or early 20th century) so that fits.

Good luck with the project!

Chris Engle
Hamster Press

[Matt Snyder]

Ok so this may be totally the wrong place for the question but I was just curious what the "standard" or at least most common font and font size are for RPGs?  I only ask because I'm doing my first draft in Arial font size 10 and I seem to type and type and each time the number of pages goes up 1 I do a little dance.  I find myself trying to figure out what I'm missing because I'm typing all kinds of stuff and all these other books are like 10 times my number of current pages.

Hello!

So, type is one of my favorite things. I hope this will help you figure out some answers.

First, why do you care whether or not your text equals other books? Don't sweat it. Your book is exactly as long as it needs to be. It shouldn't have jack to do with what other games are in terms of length. Games from 4 pages to 400 are totally workable and marketable, particularly among the creator-owned RPG scene.

Second, get the fuck away from Arial! I'm only sort of kidding. To explain: Arial's a so-so font, in my view. It actually does a pretty good damn job as a font on the computer screen. That bit about reading long pieces of text that are serifed faces is true. But, there's info that says reading long text on the computer screen is better with sans serif faces (which Arial is).

But, if you want to bring that text to the printed page at all -- even a PDF that you intend some people to print out, pick something else. Here are some excellent serif faces (many of my favorites) you could consider using:

Times New Roman
Sabon
Bembo
Minion
Garamond

Palatino is a pretty good bodycopy, serif font. It tends to make your page counts jump a bit -- a lame trick we used to use in college to eek into 6-page paper territory with 5 pages of writing. (Hey, we were lame journalists who knew too many stupid type tricks!)

One more bit about Arial -- it's remarkably similar, but not exactly like Helvetica. Helvetica really is a better typeface. In fact, it's REALLY good, it's just that it's used so often (like times). If you want some sans serif suggestions, here are a couple:

Helvetica
Univers
Franklin Gothic
Futura


Oh, and Ron -- White Wolf used the Goudy family for their texts like Vampire. I'm not 100% certain when this first occured. (1st Ed. Vampire? I dunno -- don't have that or any related books from that era, just some White Wolf stuff later on.) I can't even look at Goudy without thinking of it as a White Wolf thing.

I have no idea what Champions used. I'm only barely familiar with their books anyway. I have it in my head they used a big sans serif face? Hell if I know.

[Clay]

Just to get an idea of how good Helvetica can be as a body font, take a look at the classic Traveller books (you can buy reprints from http://www.farfuture.net/).  They're very readable and set only in Helvetica.  It also happens that it fit well with the futuristic game.

[Clay]

And at the risk of spamming, consider that a typeface that sits closely together has some advantages for a game book too.  It reduces page count, which either saves your customers on ink, or you on printing costs.  So long as the text is still readable, this is a good thing.

[JohnG]

Thanks everyone, I greatly appreciate the advice.  I've stopped worrying so much about pages, I'm at 35,000 words and I've still got plenty more that needs typing and plenty of things that I'm sure I'll find out I need to add once people preread and playtest lol.

[KeithBVaughn]

See if you can get ahold of this book, it should answer a lot of your questions.

"The Non-Designers Design Book" by Robin Williams

It's a good investment for anyone who desktop publishes.

Keith

[JohnG]

Thanks Keith.

It was mentioned earlier that a "big boy" RPG is about 100k to 200k words.  Does anyone know of an example of a 100k and a 200k word RPG?  Anyone know how many words something like Dungeons and Dragons or those beastly Iron Kingdoms books are?  This is simply a matter of curiousity on my part.

[rafael]

Does anyone know of an example of a 100k and a 200k word RPG?  Anyone know how many words something like Dungeons and Dragons or those beastly Iron Kingdoms books are?

Dread: The First Book of Pandemonium is about 130,000 words long.

-- Rafael

[casquilho]

See if you can get ahold of this book, it should answer a lot of your questions.

"The Non-Designers Design Book" by Robin Williams

It's a good investment for anyone who desktop publishes.

Keith

I want to second this. As someone who has been in publishing for many years, I have not see a better book for the price. It is quite helpful and clearly written in my opinion.

Daniel