A new use for Destiny SA

[Ace]

I thought of a new possible use for the Destiny SA and wondered what you all think


Even the most fatebound adventurer can be the subject of a mishap that coud break the skiens of his destiny. The laws of the universe say
A Wyrd is meant to be forfilled.

Sometimes those two come into conflict.

when a person with a positive Destiny SA is subject to accidental death or trauma that would stop him from completing that Destiny, Fate intercedes

Subtract 1 point from Destiny

This would not apply to jumping off a bridge (a willfull tral of fate would not be well excepted) or entry into battle but it might at the Senechals discresion apply to a random arrow or a knife in a tavern brawl

An example in us

Ki Sho of Yone has a destiny of 4 to sculpt a great statue in a far off place. As he sits a dinner with a friend a treacherous rival poisons his plum wine
As Ki Sho is about to drink the venom he is distracted and the cup is spilled.

Subtract 1 from the detiny pool as fate steps in, he is still destined just a little less so.

Now a few weeks later Ki Sho finds out about the plot and as his rival is a rich man and very powerfull decides to take a boat as far away as he can

Of course fate my intervene again and afte a wreck wash him up on the shores of Helena.
Who Knows?

[Bob Richter]

Sounds good.

Eh. I guess. :)

[Clinton R. Nixon]

I don't see the need for this fix: Destiny can be used whenever in order to fulfill your destiny. In the example above, if your Destiny was to become "king of the desert hordes" or whatever, and someone poisoned your wine, I'd let you use your Destiny dice in resisting the poison (or in an attempt to detect it).

[Brian Leybourne]

I don't see the need for this fix: Destiny can be used whenever in order to fulfill your destiny. In the example above, if your Destiny was to become "king of the desert hordes" or whatever, and someone poisoned your wine, I'd let you use your Destiny dice in resisting the poison (or in an attempt to detect it).

Dangerous precident there though. I can see some players taking this and using it as an excuse to try to add destiny dice to every combat roll ("but if I lose the combat, I can never fulfill my destiny!").

Brian.

[Lyrax]

That's when you say "I will let you have your destiny points when I, acting as destiny himself, say so."  They can't argue with destiny, luck, passion, drive and faith.  :-D

[Mike Holmes]

I looked up this thread and resurrected it because I was just wondering something about this myself. Forgive me if this was covered in another thread, and I missed it (in that case just link me to it, or give me a hint as to where to find it).

When does a destiny count and when does it not? If I have a destiny to be king of Aquilonia, and I am in combat, it seems to be a simple thing to argue that I should get my dice because fate does not want me to die here. But that makes destiny too strong. It means that you always get destiny, when drives and passions only occur in some places.

One argument would be to say that it only counts when the character is taking action that gets him closer to his destiny. But that's a fine line. How is dodging a death blow not taking action to get closer? And how is attacking someone who is attacking you not just a strong defense? My point is, what sort of objective criteria can I use as a GM to decide when to use them and when not to do so? Objective enough that the players will have an idea of when they come into play.

Because that last is important. Sometimes a player will be counting on those dice. They need to have an idea of what sort of situations the destiny dice are likely to show up in, and which are not.

If it is just some highly subjective thing, I'd very much be inclined to use them as Ace suggests (BTW, that would be exactly how Fame and Fortune points were handled in the old Top Secret game from TSR). While it seems powerful, they are "use them and lose them" (luck has two stages of use and works fairly much the same in the second stage, often being used to parry that important blow). Then I'd also allow them as bonus dice in situations that were obviously and patently all about getting to the destiny.

It just seems as though a destiny is a sufficiently long term thing that the point at which things come to a crux can be far off, and when they do arrive, the "Important Events" may be short. Once you are the king, isn't it time to forge a new destiny?

Oh, and one more thing to keep in mind. Just because Fate intervenes to save the life of the character, all it cares about is that the character end up closer to his destiny. Which means that, as the GM assigning this intervention, that you should feel free to hose the character in other ways. Sure he jumps off the cliff and lands on the back of a Roc, but in the process he'll almost certainly lose grip of his sword. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Roc intends to take the character home as lunch for the hatchlings....

You know, the more I think about it, the more I like it. Thanks, Ace.

Mike

[Lyrax]

Destiny can be used whenever the Seneschal says so.  :-)

Seriously, I like to say that if you are working towards your destiny ACTIVELY, then you can get your destiny dice (not too often, but sometimes).  This doesn't mean the character knows he is doing this, or is concious of his destiny, but that he is actually taking part in the actions that bring him closer to his destiny.

Example:  If Jon has the Destiny: Rise to Lordship, and he is currently helping to overthrow the lord that he will replace later, then I would allow him the destiny dice once, twice or perhaps even more often in the attempts to overthrow/replace that lord.  If he is in a battle with the lord himself, that counts.  If he picks a fight with a Gol Captain, that doesn't count.

It's a fine line, but here's my rule of thumb:  If it seems cheap that somebody's getting his (insert SA here) dice too often, it is, and I should increase the restrictions.

[Valamir]

I figure Destiny goes pretty much hand in hand with Prophecy.  Someone who is featured in a prophecy is "destined" to fulfill that prophecy.  Or in reverse, once a persons destiny is known, its more or less a prophecy about that person's eventual fate.

The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind deal ALOT with prophecy in ways I really like.  I recommend it for someone struggling to get a grip on the Destiny concept.  The books go into all sorts of details about branching prophecy's and false forks.  Bottom line...some prophecies are just flat out wrong, and some come true and it isn't until the critical moments when we know which is which (which makes them rather useless which is sort of the moral to the whole thing).

I imagine Mike resurrected this idea because in our game with Jake I accused his use of Destiny (half jokingly) as being a stretch.  He had defined the way in which he was to die as a destiny and was using it in a battle not related to that way in any form.

My suggestions for Destiny would be as follows:

1) Seneschals should keep Destiny SAs vague and subject to a wide range of interpretation.  In another game Mike and I ran with Jake (now being used as one of Jake's standard demos which is very cool), I also had a destiny of my own death "to be hung as a martyr".  I worked with Jake to engineer my own demise by scenario end and it resulted in me falling of a roof during a fight and becoming tangled in a banner (a really cool scene with my body swinging in front of the burning building).  Point being that there are several different ways to hang leaving the eventual fate more open.  In retrospect, as a Senschal i'd be tempted to force the Destiny to be "killed as a martyr" to make it even more general.

2) Destinies should require proactive action on behalf of the character.  In my case I had a cause that I was to be martyred for and the pursuit of that cause led to (and fed into) my destiny.  A problem with Mike's destiny choice (IMO) is that it didn't require him to DO anything except wait for his eventual preordained death scene.  SAs only work if they drive a character to action, because thats the only way that Seneschals can add points to it.

4) unless the entire campaign is to be built around a particular characters Destiny...I'd require it to start at 1.  That way even if a player was trying to use it loosly, it would still net him only 1 die.  This ties into #2 above...if the player is actively moving towards his destiny, it never gets any higher.

5) I can't put my finger on the specific rule at the moment, but I'm sure that a Seneschal can reduce SAs based on play.  If a player is continually "tempting fate" by relying on his destiny to pull him through, I'd begin reducing that destiny.  Like wise if the character isn't actually moving towards his destiny.  Once it hits zero...it doesn't matter what he uses it for and it can now be changed.

6) In the end, its entirely possible for a character to fail to fulfill his destiny.  Even in RoS as it stands its possible that those extra 5 dice won't save him from death...so a Seneschal can feel free to deny the use of dice in a weak situation without feeling like his violating fate.

Ultimately I think Destinies should be used sparringly.  They are EXTREMELY powerful tools to drive a campaign...but should rarely be used if they aren't going to be the focus of the campaign.  Most "destinies" I've seen can be rephrased into drives and passions in order to get the effect the player was looking for if that passion isn't going to be driving the story.