The Art of Destruction

[Paganini]

All right, Jake wants to blow things up. (I'm hoping he jumps right on this thread. :) Mike has suggested that there aren't any games devoted to this genre of the type that Jake describes. So, here's a sort of poll thread:

Given a game that focuses on violence, what mechanical conventions do you want to see? Pretend we're making Unreal Tournament the RPG or Max Payne the RPG (No lectures on IP Ron... it's just an example. :)

The big questions:

What GNS mode do we want to encourage? We've already got a theme... causing destruction. Doesn't sound to me like this is a terribly narrativist premise. It could be made into one, but it sounds to me like "blowing things up" is an actual goal of play, which suggest Simulation with Exploration of Situation (SES) to me. Our guys blow things up / kill people / use big guns / etc. Where do they do it, and what happens when they do?

What do the players do in the game? They have their characters wreak havoc, okay, but what sort of social structure are we talking about here? Is it appropriate for players in a SES game to use Director or Author stance, or should they stick to Actor stance? I'm thinking that for a SES game, Actor stance is going to be important. However, I'm also thinking that it would be cool if players could get a little Director stance to narrate complications... that is, whenever something totally whacked out and unexpectedly harsh needs to happen to the character, the player gets to narrate it. As in "Dang! I rolled a complication. Guess I run out of ammo."

What sort of resolution is appropriate? Action resolution or conflict resolution? I'm going to say action resolution, since a focus on destruction is desired and everyone's going to want get into the action.

Now, some more color-based questions:

What sort of people blow things up? Since every character in the game blows things up in some way we're going to want to have archetypes for different types. I'm thinking along the lines of "Street Samurai," "Gun Bunny," "Military Expert," and so on.

What sort of "feel" should the resolution mechanic have?

What sort of damage system fits the theme?

[Jared A. Sorensen]

Get a piece of paper and create a "control panel" by drawing some empty boxes and writing the following labels next to them:

Ammo
Health
Jumping
Speed
Damage
...etc.

You roll a pool of dice each round and place the dice within the various boxes. This represents your characters upcoming "moves." Opponents then throw obstacles at you, hoping to "hit" you with something that you can't counter (because you have a low score in that field). When rolling dice, you need a score of 6 to successfully deal with the obstacle...

Example: A pit opens up, you only have 1 die assigned to Jump. You need to roll a 6 on that one die or else you DO die.

In-game weapons and items would appear to give you die bonuses. For extra variety, a character creation system could be created that gives your characters free dice/re-rolls/whatever in certain areas.

[Ollog Herder]

I'd say that, to cut down on book keeping, you should only die/run out of ammo/wear out your armor if you fail a roll. aside from that, you should be fine. if you ever botch a shooting roll, or a roll opposed to someone's shooting roll, etc., you could rule that something like that happens.
that way, if you roll well, you'll keep on shooting and living and being (armored).

[Laurel]

I just had this bizarre visualization for a game that used those little green army men...and lobbing dice, rather than rolling them.  The better one's dice pool for a specific attack, the more dice missiles one could throw.

Accidentally tossing dice into one's own beer would count as friendly fire.

[Bailywolf]

When I was yonger, and all my characters had psionics and 18(00) Strength (I rolled it, I swear to god!), we used to use richochet dice.  Especialy with percentiles.  

If the die went off the table, it could be rerolled, so you would throw the 10's percentile, then if it came up scratch, try and nail it with the 1's die to knock it off the table.  You had to pop it pretty good because if the 1's die stayed on the table, it had to be kept...and you didn't have anything to nail the second roll with if it sucked too.  Sometimes the GM would make us roll in the lid of a FASA Star Trek rpg box, and we got good and slamming them so hard they both jumped out of the box.  Once, a die landed in my coke, and the pizza always ended up with die-shaped craters.

[Valamir]

I just had this bizarre visualization for a game that used those little green army men...and lobbing dice, rather than rolling them.  The better one's dice pool for a specific attack, the more dice missiles one could throw.

Accidentally tossing dice into one's own beer would count as friendly fire.

We used lincoln logs.  First build the forts, then blast 'em down.  Each army guy and tank and howitzer was rated by calibre...which for us meant what size log you got to fling at the other guys stuff.  The opening barrage of the 4 notch artillery logs was always devastating...;-)

[Laurel]

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that a "blow em up game" that had some kind of physical component (lincoln logs, green army men, dice missiles, zippo flame attacks) would be more satisfying than a game without it.   The trick would be to make the carnage containable, affordable, and ensure no physical harm actually came to players (well, nothing worse than playing a game of "spoons").

[damion]

Jared: Well, they already have Frag, the boardgame, so I think a direct FPS emulation is out. While a FPS RPG would probably be the extreme of Gamism, it would basicly be a straight out combat system benchmark. From what I heard this might be fun in RoS.

Damage could go too ways:

1)Players shouldn't die to often.
2)Players should die ALOT, but respawn.

Both fit the FPS model, the first just ignores the save's/ restores(It is theoretically possible to an entire game with dieing. Kinda like that old DOOM demo where the guy does the entire game in an hour and 5 minutes)



In General, how about something like this.
1)GM & Players agree on premis, I.e. WHY they are running around blowing the crap out of stuff. This can be pretty vague, aliens(DN,Life/2), invasion, daemons from dimension X(Doom), vengance on the mob who took my family(MP?), terrorists(DeusEx), ect. You could also do a Rifts theme, A.la
battleground of the universe, anything goes.


When a player 'dies' they narrate how they die and then become GM. GM narrates themself in as a reinforcement somehow.

Just some random thoughts.

[Valamir]

One of my favorite games as a child was some GI Joe tie in called "missile command" or something like that.

There were two sides, each had a plastic base about 2' x 1' in size (irregulaly shaped).  On the top surface of this base were several compartments, and in each compartment (some assemply required) was a plastic and rubberband equivelent to a moustrap device.  The lid on the compartment (set carefully in place) was a colorful representation of buildings in the base.

In the middle of the base was a rubber band powered launcher that fired foam missiles wieghted like a badmitton birdie.  By adusting the angle and the number of notches the launcher was cocked (and rotating the base) you'd control the trajectory.

The object of course being to hit the building targets thereby triggering the moustrap device and launching the buildings into the air.


Another favorite was the classic Crossbows and Catapults (far superior to Weapons and Warriors) where you'd build forts with loose lego type bricks and blast them down with rubber band powered catapults and ballistae.

Since we played those even more than Risk or monopoly, I think your theory is correct...or at least it was until the safty nazis took all the fun out of toys.

[Paganini]

Jared: Well, they already have Frag, the boardgame, so I think a direct FPS emulation is out. While a FPS RPG would probably be the extreme of Gamism, it would basicly be a straight out combat system benchmark. From what I heard this might be fun in RoS.

Frag the boardgame? I've never heard of this... where the heck can I get ahold of it?

When a player 'dies' they narrate how they die and then become GM. GM narrates themself in as a reinforcement somehow.

Man, this is the coolest rule *ever!* But don't stop there... when a player dies he becomes the GM, and the GM becomes a new player. It's the UT Server of No Downtime!

You've sold me... I've got to design this game.

[Paganini]

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that a "blow em up game" that had some kind of physical component (lincoln logs, green army men, dice missiles, zippo flame attacks) would be more satisfying than a game without it.   The trick would be to make the carnage containable, affordable, and ensure no physical harm actually came to players (well, nothing worse than playing a game of "spoons").

Styrofoam cups make *great* cheap futuristic buildings. They crush very satisfactorily. Not even too much mess. You don't want to burn them, though. :)

[Paganini]

Another favorite was the classic Crossbows and Catapults (far superior to Weapons and Warriors) where you'd build forts with loose lego type bricks and blast them down with rubber band powered catapults and ballistae.

I still have a bunch of these... ah the nostalgia. The figures (knights, archers, a king) are actually some of the better playing pieces I've seen.

But, speaking of this type of game, do you remember a game using rubber band powere'd catapults and balistas in a scifi setting? You shot "destructors" - little plastic disks with decals on them - and tried to capture enemy aliens, knock down walls and buildings, and so on. I still have a bunch of the pieces, but I've lost the rules and can't remember the name of it. As I recall the rules were actually fairly sophisticated, with movement rules, different battlefield zones, play modes, and so on.

[Valamir]

I think that was a spin off on Crossbows and Catapults.  Weapons and Warriors used annoying orange marbles for projectiles, C&C used the heavy thick plastic disks with decals called Battle Caroms.  In the basic set there were advanced rules for capturing using the viking and barbarian figures from the rival castles.

[Paganini]

I think that was a spin off on Crossbows and Catapults.  Weapons and Warriors used annoying orange marbles for projectiles, C&C used the heavy thick plastic disks with decals called Battle Caroms.  In the basic set there were advanced rules for capturing using the viking and barbarian figures from the rival castles.

Yes... but... the name! The name is all! TELL ME THE NAME! AAAAAAAH!

[MetaDude]

What sort of "feel" should the resolution mechanic have?
What sort of damage system fits the theme?

I'm not entirely sure about the first, but I think it ought to be pretty lethal.  Everyone, regardless of who they are, should start with 100 health.  Amor should work like additional health points, absorbing damage until it's gone.

And players should definitely respawn: makes fraggin' yourself in the process of blowin' stuff up more palatable...