Brainstorming a System

[chronoplasm]

I had a power 19 for this game I'm working on someplace... but I seem to have misplaced it.

Anyway, I'm trying to make a gamist miniatues game where players command a group of super heroes, super villains, zombies, alien invaders, sewer mutants, or resistance fighters, each with their own win condition mostly involving the survival of special noncombatant units under their protection.

I already have a vague idea for a couple of mechanics I want to use:

1) Noncombatant units serve as a resource and give you a point pool to spend. More noncombatants gives you access to better combatant units, but they also serve as a liability. Noncombatants must be protected as they may be required for your army to function (as with the alien invader's hivemind) and they may be converted over to the opponent's side (zombie infection, rebellions, etc.)

2) Cardboard knowledge chits can be inserted into the bases of your units. Knowledge chits are kept face down and hidden most of the time, but when revealed they grant special abilities to the unit.


At first I imagined this game using some kind of dice mechanic, but now I'm starting to lean toward more of a point pool mechanic where points are spent each turn to move units and attack. Perhaps combat may work by bidding of some sort, where players secretely bid a number of points on their respective units, then reveal the number they selected... or something like that?

Any suggestions?

[David C]

Chrono, I think this is the same game I remember posting to in the past. I wanted to throw out a couple ideas that I had while reading your post, as well as answer your question. You may have thought of these, already, but in case you haven't...

1. For the "knowledge chits", some of them could be traps (destroy target attacking this unit)
2. You might want a way of people destroying/disabling enemy chits
3. Noncombatants could be used to produce chits as well as new units

Ok, as for your mechanic, reading your stuff makes me think of Warmachine's mechanics.  One of their mechanics is that HQ units each have 3 focus that they can allocate towards moving a unit.  Otherwise, they can also use the focus to do powers.  For example,

A) Spend 3 focus on 1 unit, make it do 3 actions
B) Spend 3 focus on 3 different units, make each do 1 action
C) Spend 1 focus on a unit, 1 on a special ability (of that unit), and 1 on a special ability (of the HQ)

As for resolving combat, I highly recommend sticking with dice, and lots of them.  If you want this to be a tactical game, you'll want to reduce the occurrence of "getting lucky." Also, a mechanic, like bidding, shifts the focus of the game into psychology and resource management, and away from sound tactical decisions.

[chronoplasm]

I hadn't thought of those ideas at all.

Perhaps destroying and disabling knowledge could be done with 'telepathy' attacks?
Telepathy allows you to attack the enemy's mind instead of body. You compare your attack roll to the defense rating on the knowledge chit instead of on the model. Depending on how successful you are, knowledge may be disabled, destroyed, or stolen.
The aliens all get telepathy by default. Super-villains and super-heroes can gain telepathy by spending points.

Noncombatants are divided up into groups, each of which produces a different kind of resource.
Researchers produce knowledge.
Innocents produce morale.
Diplomats allow you to bring together units from two different factions to create your army.
...and uh... I still need to come up with more.

[chronoplasm]

OK, so with all these super-powered people running (or flying) around, I know that I'm not going for a gritty and realistic feel.
I want something that feels more cinematic.
I know that exploding dice are a mechanic used to get this feel.
Action points in D&D4E also add a nice cinematic feel.

Then again, the game does focus on small skirmishes for control of city blocks, and the fact that innocent civilians can die in the crossfire is at the core of this game. So... maybe the game should be fairly gritty.

I'm thinking maybe... highly explosive combat with a high mortality rate. Individual units may be capable of doing damage on an epic scale, but are also easily dismembered.

Your thoughts?

[David C]

Hmm, you were making a board game, correct?  Board games tend to be very gamist... which means that you probably need to decide what your core gamist elements will be.  You win by killing off all their HQ unit(s).  But how does it work outside of that.  Is it skill based or luck based?  If it is skill based, what skills? Tactics? (My presumption)  Once you establish that, you can start thinking about other things, like cinematic elements and specifics of the game. 

How about leaving yourself a lot of room, and changing knowledge to... Technology or Enhancements.   Like, Earth and Aliens would get technlogy, hive monsters would get DNA and zombies would get BRAAAAIIINS.  Knowledge could also be part of that, but it isn't as limited.

I like the telepathy.  Maybe humans get sabotage, and zombies instead of getting either, just get suicide units?   Maybe some chits are decoys, so that not every disabling attempt is successful.  Maybe disabling is automatic then, but it takes actions up? You'd have to choose between... moving, shooting, etc.  Or disabling that chit.  Which could be a grenade or knowledge of how to destroy the hive queen... or it could be blank. 

Noncombatants are divided up into groups, each of which produces a different kind of resource.
Researchers produce knowledge.
Innocents produce morale.
Diplomats allow you to bring together units from two different factions to create your army.

What does morale do?   Also, instead of having different resources, how about you do this?  Have each unit produce "Resource", which you can spend on anything, but you have to have the right type of units to buy certain Techs or Knowledge... If your Researchers are dead, you can't buy technology anymore, if your innocents are dead, you can't purchase morale anymore, if your diplomats are dead, you can't produce other faction's units anymore.

Action points in D&D4E also add a nice cinematic feel.

Don't add mechanics cause they're neat, add them because they have a purpose in YOUR game.  Also, try and get your core game done before you start adding extraneous mechanics.  If you need specific help with mechanics, I'm a very mechanic-oriented guy, so feel free to ask me for any sort of help.

[chronoplasm]

I'm definately thinking tactics based, but perhaps also a psychological element as well with the chits.

You know, I don't think the game needs dice at all. I think the chits provide enough of an element of uncertainty.
When you first attack an enemy unit, you have an idea of the unit's basic abilities based on the model used, but you do not know whether or not it has a chit, or if it does, what kind of chit?
It's like Stratego! You have no idea if the guy you are attacking is a general, or a spy, or a bomb, or what.

That adds an interesting dynamic to the zombies. The opponent might have a crowd of otherwise normal humans, but one of them might have a zombie infection chit. Other factions may have similar kinds of chits... rebel spy, alien replicant, super-hero secret identity...
See, certain factions, super-heroes in particular, get penalties for attacking noncombatants, I haven't figured out the specifics yet, but it's something I've intended since the beginning.
SInce the beginning, I've wanted certain enemies that could hide amongst innocent civilians and use this as their primary tactic. I just wasn't sure how I wanted to go about it...

But yeah, the chits don't have to represent knowledge neccessarily; they can be all sorts of things.


OK, so let me get this straightened out...

Before the game, you first select your faction.
Then, you select a number of noncombatants and place these throughout your side of the board.
Depending on how many noncombatants you choose, you get a point pool.
You can spend points to purchase combatant units.
You also get a certain number of chits which you discretely place on the bottoms of your units.

Depending on what faction you choose, you will have a different win condition. Something like...
Super Heroes: Rescue as many noncombatants as you can.
Super Villains: Construct your doomsday device.
Alien Invaders: Destroy all enemy combatants.
Resistance: Liberate noncombatants.
Sewer Mutants: Kill noncombatants. Cause terror.
Zombies: Kill everything!

When two units engage in combat:
First, check the base attack and defense for the two models.
Then, look at the bottom of the models and check to see if they have any chits.
Chits may add bonuses to attack and/or defense and/or they might add special effects.

What do you think?

[David C]

Sounds good so far.  How does attack and defense figure into units wounded/killed?

[David C]

Haha, I just thought of a neat idea. What if super heroes were basically invincible until you killed their secret identity unit? 

[chronoplasm]

I was thinking maybe...
Attack: Determines the amount of damage a unit can deal.
Defense: Determines the amount of damage a unit can take before it is destroyed.

I'm thinking maybe damage can be divided up into two types:
Momentary Damage: This damage falls off at the end of turn.
Lasting Damage: Indicated using markers stacked under the unit, this damage lasts until the unit is healed.

Lasting damage is fairly uncommon however, as I want to try and minimize book-keeping.

I like the idea of killing the secret identity unit to kill a super-hero.
Another idea I just thought of was to have some kind of 'romantic interest' chip you can put on a noncombatant. Super-heroes are able to make free actions to intervene when their romantic interest is in peril, but if the romantic interest is killed the super takes a heavy hit.