Last ones I promise

[Riddlemaster]

Sorry just got a few more.. Im doing a demp atthree diffrent game stores here in Jacksonville and i figure the way to get all the premade characters togther is a tournament.  Justsome final questions...  Im well versed in Kendo and Iado style of sword play and tournaments but fuzzy on Eurpoean style

1.  HOw would you do non-lethat duels such as sword duels.  Blunt weapons with tar on them?  First Blood??  It just seems that even to first blood a lot of peole would die real quick?  How would you do it.

2.  Jousting.. even with blunted lances  the sheer damage inflcited seems it would kill a knight.  How is this done so the protagnist would still be alive?

3.  Can enyone think of other events.. (missle weapons excluded of course i can handle that)

[Riddlemaster]

1.  Finally they mention Chain armor for chest and sleaves of leather ... wear is this armor anyway??

2.  Leather leggings??  I know it be 2 av but any movement penalty??

[Jaif]

There was a discussion of non-lethal combat awhile ago. I don't remember what came from that, but personally I would let people declare what strength they're using.  Yeah, your strength might be 7, but you can start at 3 and see what that gets you.

-Jeff

[Jake Norwood]

1.  Finally they mention Chain armor for chest and sleaves of leather ... wear is this armor anyway??

Buy a sleeveless chain shirt and a leather jack. Done.

2.  Leather leggings??  I know it be 2 av but any movement penalty??

We're talking cuirboilli (sp?) leather here, not Harley pants. These wouldn't be real confortable, and I'm not sure that they ever even existed historically.

Jake

[Mokkurkalfe]

In tRoS, is leather soft and flexible or hard(saw somewhere a full "plate" armor made of hard leather)?
Always wondered.

[Lance D. Allen]

In tRoS, is leather soft and flexible or hard(saw somewhere a full "plate" armor made of hard leather)?
Always wondered.

It would depend on the type, location and purpose of the leather.

Cuirboulli is hard leather, made so by boiling it. The name itself literally means boiled leather, in fact. The process thickens it and makes it more rigid once it dries. Other processes may be used to harden the leather (wax, for example), but this seems to be the most historically accurate, and the most effective. It is used for larger plates of leather, and has the advantage of being both rigid and lighter-weight than steel and iron.

Softer leather, but still thick and somewhat rigid is often used in layers for armor, such as leather scale, and I *believe* some sorts of banded armor. It is also used in conjunction with plate and chain in places where strong protection from impact is not needed, but where the edges of plates might chafe, or where chain might wear.

Softer leather, such as suede, is rarely ever used in armor, except for cosmetics. However, thinner leathers are used in later period armor styles such as the brigandine or coat of plates. The leather is basically there purely to keep the plates in place over the body, and this set-up allows a greater flexibility than many rigid styles of armor, such as breastplates.

Do not take this as gospel, however. This is simply what I have learned in the past weeks of researching different armor styles, prior to committing cash to a set for my own use (stuff is expensive!) I may have come across some inaccurate information, though for the most part it appears sound.

As for the chain-vest and leather sleeves... You simply buy, as Jake said, the chain shirt w/o sleeves, and pay the difference in price between a sleeveless leather jack and a sleeved one for the leather sleeves. The bracers were something I extrapolated from gauntlets, and the arming glove I got the price and stats from Jake, in some PM or other way back.

[Sneaky Git]

The bracers were something I extrapolated from gauntlets, and the arming glove I got the price and stats from Jake, in some PM or other way back.

Ah.. I was wondering about the arming glove.. Care to share what you got from Jake?  Cost, stats, etc..  It would be much appreciated.  ;)

[Lance D. Allen]

For an arming glove pay about half the price of one gauntlet (or 1/4 the price of the pair listed) and treat it as if if had the armor rating of chainmail (4).

Go with 8 silver imperial standard for one set of gauntlets, or 2 silver for a simple arming glove. Bracers would be half of that or less, I figure.

Those are from PMs back and forth between us. Somewhere I remember him saying that if you tried to use the glove to parry a cut, that it would have a reduced AV of only 3, and would have the effect of a strike to the hand. However, I can't find this, so you'll have to take it on faith until he can confirm it for me.

Which, with some thought, would be worth it. Most cut-and-thrusters I imagine are pretty lightly armored, and a swing for the leg, or head would hurt immensely. Catching/deflecting with the glove, where you get to use the AV of 3 along with your natural toughness, instead of taking it full on your unprotected body, in a place that could cripple you... a worthwhile trade-off, if nothing else is possible (say, your sword is currently 10 feet away, and you can't evade)

Anyhow,

[Brian Leybourne]

2.  Jousting.. even with blunted lances  the sheer damage inflcited seems it would kill a knight.  How is this done so the protagnist would still be alive?

Tourney jousting didn't use blunted lances. Well, yes, they were blunt, but they were also manufactured to splinter and break thus softening the impact. It still hurt like hell, presumably, but not enough to kill someone, just throw them off their horse. And if you don't want to be hurt, don't joust :-)

OBAM has rules for jousting actually, so you'll be able to read all about it.

Brian.

[Sneaky Git]

2.  Jousting.. even with blunted lances  the sheer damage inflcited seems it would kill a knight.  How is this done so the protagnist would still be alive?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that jousting armor was different from your typical suit of armor.  More protection and (I would assume.. I recognize the danger there..) less mobility than a typical suit of field armor.

[Valamir]

You're almost right.  By the time jousting reached the hieght of its pageantry, full plate had completely (or very nearly so) disappeared from the battlefield.  Thus the ONLY suits of plate being designed at that time were designed specifically for the needs of the tourney

These were indeed much heavier and designed in ways that no sane person would ever try to use on the battle field.

If there was a time where specialized tourney platemail was being designed simultaneously with widespread battle field use armor it must have been very brief.

[Durgil]

OBAM has rules for jousting actually, so you'll be able to read all about it.

Brian.

Why would Jousting Rules be included in Of Beasts and Men?  I would have thought that it would be in The Flower of Battle Combat Supplement.

[Jake Norwood]

You're almost right.  By the time jousting reached the hieght of its pageantry, full plate had completely (or very nearly so) disappeared from the battlefield.  Thus the ONLY suits of plate being designed at that time were designed specifically for the needs of the tourney

These were indeed much heavier and designed in ways that no sane person would ever try to use on the battle field.

If there was a time where specialized tourney platemail was being designed simultaneously with widespread battle field use armor it must have been very brief.

Check out The Martial Arts of Rennaisance Europe, by Dr. Sydney Anglo. It'll open a whole new can on contemporary jousting and fighting armors.

Jake

[Valamir]

Oh yeah?  Can you give me a couple ferinstances...has my knowledge on medieval armor been superceded...it probably has been about a decade since I spent any real time on the subject.

[Anthony I]

Check out The Martial Arts of Rennaisance Europe, by Dr. Sydney Anglo. It'll open a whole new can on contemporary jousting and fighting armors.

Jake

I found it interesting that for tourney, striking the horse was pretty must a faux pas, but, when applied to warfare, a strike to the horse was so unilaterally advised and recommended.  You definitely see the change in the manuals from the time- the move from "real" to sport, from practical to show.  Great book.