half-poling

[svenlein]

Swords have 2 grips (in TROS): regular and half-swording,
Should Pole weapons (spears, staves, pole arms) also have more than one grip?  Or are pole weapons only optimally effective at one length, and don't have a shorter grip for close in fighting?

I believe it has been said quarterstaves can be half sworded, but they don't get a +3 damage vs metal armour, would a half-swored spear get this bonus?

Are these ideas reflected in actual combat, or are they just impressions spawned from coreographed fighting in media?

Scott

[Shadeling]

I don't think you can half-pole so to speak. I mean to use these weapons effectively requires 2 hands. Half-swording with a sword, in a sense makes its use like a pole-weapon-your grop being in a similar place.

Just my 2 Crowns.

[svenlein]

could a short spear be used as a club?
could a spear be used as a quarter-staff?
could a long spear be used as a short staff?
OR
are they balanced differently, so much so that they can't be used that way?

Scott

[Lance D. Allen]

For the most part, polearms and spears aren't balanced at all. Some polearms may have a weight at the butt (I've not done any research on polearms, so this is mostly conjecture, with a sprinkling of experience thrown in) so that they will have some measure of balance, though.

Spears on the other hand are designed as thrusting weapons, and are best used as such. They normally have no balance whatsoever, with all of the weight being focused on the end of the weapon with the thrusting tip. If you get into closer ranged combat, it's probably wiser to default to another proficiency, drop your spear, and draw a sword, mace, or whatever you have hangin' at your hip.

[Mike Holmes]

Spears on the other hand are designed as thrusting weapons, and are best used as such. They normally have no balance whatsoever, with all of the weight being focused on the end of the weapon with the thrusting tip.

I'd disagree. Yes polearms are unbalanced, and some spears might be designed this way. But a chinese spear is a staff with a pointy end, and used thusly.

So, for certain schools, I'd say that yes, you can learn to use that sort of spear as both spear and staff. Absolutely.

Also, see Naginata for a balanced polearm that would have its own style that would be somewhere inbetween. Definitely used in more of the staff mode, but with a cutting edge.

Mike

[svenlein]

yes, that is exactly what I was thinking about, a friend of mine showed me his chinese spear fighting book, and it was almost exactly the same as a staff.

Scott

[Jake Norwood]

All the staff work I've learned is roughly identical to spear work. European staff work was not the middle-of-the-staff stuff you see in Robin Hood. Check out the manual plate from Joachim Meyer on p. 56 of TROS.

Jake

[svenlein]

Ok, so then are these true statements

could a short spear be used as a club?
could a spear be used as a quarter-staff?
could a long spear be used as a short staff?

maybe with an activation cost to switch between the styles, or no cost if they are so close as Jake says?

Why does a spear have a worse defence than a staff?

Also I there any time when middle-of-the-staff-Robin-Hood-style would be useful?  And what would the stats be if so?

Scott

[contracycle]

... and just for completenes, an Assegai (the real name is "ilk'wha" after the sound it makes being removed from someone) is like a short sword-blade onna stick.

[Jake Norwood]

Ok, so then are these true statements

could a short spear be used as a club?
could a spear be used as a quarter-staff?
could a long spear be used as a short staff?

A short spear meaning 4' long? yeah. Otherwise, use a short staff.
A spear can definitely be used as a q-staff.
a long spear can be shortened by choking up on the haft, yeah, but it won't be as quick as the short staff.

maybe with an activation cost to switch between the styles, or no cost if they are so close as Jake says?

in most cases here you're referring to the "polearm" proficiency, so it's not like you'll have a separate combat pool. On the other hand, I'd impose a change-over cost similar to that on the half-sword if you're trying to do it mid-round.

Why does a spear have a worse defence than a staff?

I'm thinkin' it's due to the iron or steel head on the end, and/or the metal butt-end cap, both of which weigh the weapon down some and/or unbalance it somewhat. My opinions on the spear and q-staff from when I wrote that were more based on the words of George Silver and modern folks that do staff work, as I didn't start it myself until about 10 months ago. FREX, Silver speaks of the q-staff as being one of the best all-around weapons, but not the spear.

Also I there any time when middle-of-the-staff-Robin-Hood-style would be useful?  And what would the stats be if so?

Scott

In my opinion...no. But there are several folks that would disagree, including some that practice staff. Using your staff RH-style shortens your reach tremendously, slows you down, and opens you up to several kinds of attack, not to mention that your attacks rely on circular momentum which has issues of its own. Better to use two short clubs (like escrima) than to RH your staff. I'm referring to the use of an 8' staff here, which is where I've spent most of my time. I believe, however, that the same applies at 6'. From what I've seen in manuals and historically, the staff was used RH style for sport-fighting and for armor fighting, where the staff is used more as an aid to wrestling (see Maximillian's Fechbuch).

Jake

[Thirsty Viking]

ah  some things to think about....

RH a staff might be usefull on an individual basis....   try to picture the mayhem in a formation fight!   Totally unworkable then.  better to close ranks  and use it otherwise.

[svenlein]

A short spear meaning 4' long? yeah. Otherwise, use a short staff.
A spear can definitely be used as a q-staff.
a long spear can be shortened by choking up on the haft, yeah, but it won't be as quick as the short staff.

In the tros book a "short staff" is about as long as a long spear, is this inaccurate.

Scott

[Thirsty Viking]

anytime you choke up on a pole arm...   keep in mind what's behind you.

[Jake Norwood]

A short spear meaning 4' long? yeah. Otherwise, use a short staff.
A spear can definitely be used as a q-staff.
a long spear can be shortened by choking up on the haft, yeah, but it won't be as quick as the short staff.

In the tros book a "short staff" is about as long as a long spear, is this inaccurate.

Scott

Heh, no, it's not innaccurate. The british "short staff" was about 8-9' long, as opposed to the "long staff" which was about 10' long. This time I meant a short staff by our general reckoning, being about 4-6 feet tops. Sorry 'bout that.

Jake

[contracycle]

I think the staff RH-style is effective against unarmed opponents, in which it still gives a reach advantage.  But then its not really a military weapon.