Narrative Solo Gaming: Addressing Premise

[Paganini]

So, I've been thinking about a lot of things recently. Why I'm always *on the verge* of buying miniatures, dungeon-scapes, dungeon-tile fonts, etc. Why, basically, dungeon crawl trappings appeal to me when I hate whiffs and bookkeeping and pointless wondering alternating with pointless combat.

The conclusion that I arrived at is that it's not the trappings per se that are interesting. The trappings provide atmosphere, but in order for me to have enjoyment, there must be something *interesting* going on. This is why games like Mage Knight bore me to tears, even when I get all excited from looking at them in stores (and even sink money in them, sometimes). There's nothing *important* happening to keep me engaged. I'm reminded if the cistern scene in Sabriel: That cistern is just the coolest location to me. But it's what's *going on* there that makes it an interesting read.

So, I started thinking all these thoughts about how drama could be added to dungeon crawl games. Then it got me... it's not really a dramatic dungeon crawl that I'm looking for; I'm looking for drama with dungeon crawl trappings.

So again, I start thinking about what could have dungeon crawl trappings, but interesting drama. Aha! Solo gaming! Lone Wolf!

So so so, I dig up all the old Forge threads on solos and game books. Lots of good stuff there. And, I found what I was looking for. Two ideas working together:

Idea #1: Give characters an "ethics" meter that changes depending on the choices they make during the game.

Idea #2: Have a big web of adventures, where each single adventure has multiple exits leading to different adventures.

Viola! Solo Narrativism. Sorta. (I guess it's actually a cross between Narrativism and Illusionism.) The GM (the writer of the adventures) presents many potential stories, while the narrative choices of the player defines the story that is actually experienced. And I do mean "narrative choices."

The existence of multiple future adventures means that I can offer choices to the player like: "Do you kill the bad dude and take his place?" If yes, then the adventure will eventually lead to an exit that points to an adventure where the character has become the Evil Overlord. If not, then a different exit will be reached. This is cool, because it allows an unusual degree of player control for the solo medium: You can actually play an evil character if you wish.

It would be a lot of work to write, but it could be a fun long-term project.

Anyway, so I've been banging out some game mechanics for it. Since what I'm aiming at is pretty much "dramatic dungeon crawl" I figured it'd be a good idea to keep the ethics bit pretty clear cut. Obvious choice: Sword & Sorcery style good vs. evil. I didn't want things to be quite that clear cut, though, so I came up with a three layer scale of Dark, Grey, and Light. Here's how it works:

The character's balance between good and evil is tracked by a row of boxes on the character sheet. On the left are three black boxes labled "dark." In the center are two grey boxes labled "shadow." On the right are three white boxes labled "light." The character's current status is indicated by circling one of the boxes. Certain choices in the game (so-called "weighted" choices) will shift the character's balance between good and evil. Such a choice will cause the circle to be moved a number of boxes to the right or the left. The player will not be able to recognize these choices until after he has already made them, as the consequences of the choice will not be given until the player has turned to the appropriate section.

Other choices, called "fated" choices will be determined by a die roll based on the character's balance - the idea being that the character's past choices have determined his destiny. There will be more "fated" choices than "weighted" choices. (Be careful with these... potentialy frustrating deprotagonization.)

There are three potential outcomes for a "fated" choice: Light, Shadow, and Dark, corresponding to the three types of boxes on the character sheet. When a die roll is called for, roll the special eight-sided game die.

Note:

Game die is basically:

+1 and reroll
+1
+1
0
0
-1
-1
-1 and reroll

Start from your character's current balance. If you roll a skull, count one box towards darkness. If you roll a sun, count one box towards light. If you roll a blank, don't move in either direction. The color of the box that you land on is the result. Two of the faces (one each skull and sun) have a special symbol. When this special symbol turns up, reroll the die and add the new result to the previous one.

So, basically, I can say something like:

"Roll the game die."

"If the result is dark, turn to 144."
"If the result is grey, turn to 20."
"If the result is light, turn to 59."

How about it?

[ADGConscience]

Sounds like a great idea.

If you have a file with a collected list of Forge threads and other resources dealing with the subject that you'd be willing to share, by the way, please send me a private message.

I like the ethics mechanic, although I would hesitate about having an overabundance of "fated" choices because it would mean you can become trapped by previous choices and you end up going in one direction despite your best intentions and conscious choices to the contrary. (Although from a dramatic perspective, maybe what I just said argues in favor of it...) Is that what you meant by "deprotagonization"?

So, where do the toy soldiers fit in all this? Is it a case of "turn to page 113 and set up Dirt Cheep Dungeon #3"? Could be a cool feature...

Dave
who also read and loved Sabriel

[Paganini]

If you have a file with a collected list of Forge threads and other resources dealing with the subject that you'd be willing to share, by the way, please send me a private message.

I just did a Forge search for "Solo Gaming." A couple of the thread names aren't obvious... "Idea" is a good one. :)

I like the ethics mechanic, although I would hesitate about having an overabundance of "fated" choices because it would mean you can become trapped by previous choices and you end up going in one direction despite your best intentions and conscious choices to the contrary.

The idea behind Fated choices is to provide a consequence for Weighted choices. Your character's orientation relative to Light and Dark is determined by the Weighted choices the reader makes. Consistently making choices in favor of Darkness will mean that your character is likely to get a Dark result when rolling for a Fated choice. You made the choices, now you have to live with the consequences.

It's really unlikely that you'll get a Light result when you've been making choices that drive your character towards Darkness.

It's possible for a character firmly planted in darkness to get a Grey or Light result (and vice versa), but it's really unlikely, because it would require many consequitive sun rerolls. I added the exploding dice element so that unexpected results might happen and surprise the reader with an unexpected plot twist. His character, gradually shaping up to be evil, has an unexpected softening of his heart and lets the little girl live. Etc.

(Although from a dramatic perspective, maybe what I just said argues in favor of it...) Is that what you meant by "deprotagonization"?

Fated choices appear to take control away from the player. The player doesn't get to decide, he rolls a die instead. This sort of situation must be handled with care to avoid player frustration.

Actually, Fated choices don't really take player control. They're a result of the player's overall choices up to this point. The player can control the outcome of fated choices by making choices that are consistent with a particular outlook.

The choice mechanic along with the Shadow result allows players to hover in the center and sway back and forth depending on the choices they make.

So, where do the toy soldiers fit in all this? Is it a case of "turn to page 113 and set up Dirt Cheep Dungeon #3"? Could be a cool feature...

Well... I was leaning in that direction originaly, but the concensus is that minis are a bad idea for solo games. Plus, I can't expect everyone to have DCDs. :) The Dungeon Delving aspect comes in with the navigation mechanic. Each adventure will come with a map of the location it's set in. The player will move from numbered location to numbered location on the map. The numbered locations will correspond to descriptive passages.

So, rather than having:

"If you wish to go east, turn to page 128"
"If you wish to go north, turn to page 62"

The player just follows the map and turns to the appropriate page. If he wants to investigate something at that location, items of interest will also be numbered with their own separate descriptions.

Most of the descriptions will be mundane, like "An ordinary table sits against the wall," so that the mere presence of a number does not indicate a story event.

[C. Edwards]

The more I think about this the more I like it.

Would an adventure be based around a mostly pre-generated but customizable character?  You could have the "Dashing Rogue" adventure line, the "Shining Palading" line, etc.  How cool would it be to give characters something like Spiritual Attributes in TRoS or the Personal Struggle in Synthesis to give players something to base their character's actions on?

Well... I was leaning in that direction originaly, but the concensus is that minis are a bad idea for solo games. Plus, I can't expect everyone to have DCDs.

I could see a game like this being packaged like a standard boxed adventure.  Extensive maps, a "world-book" to help players learn some background on where the adventure takes place, a miniature with a MageKnight like base to keep track of... whatever, maybe the light/shadow/dark aspect.  If not a miniature, then some sort of icon or token that the player could use to keep track of the characters location on the maps.  I think the props would be a big draw and they would lend the game a comfortable familiarity.  Besides, props are good... (drool)

The fortune aspect is very sweet.  I would think that it would help remove the feel of predictability that seems to plague solo rpgs.  Giving such cumulative weight to player decisions should also help make players feel empowered, protagonized.

I'll take two.  Wrap one up and I'll read the other on the way home. ;)

-Chris

[Paganini]

Would an adventure be based around a mostly pre-generated but customizable character?  You could have the "Dashing Rogue" adventure line, the "Shining Palading" line, etc.  How cool would it be to give characters something like Spiritual Attributes in TRoS or the Personal Struggle in Synthesis to give players something to base their character's actions on?

I'm going back and forth on this one. Part of the gimmick is the "now you can really role-play with your solo gaming" tagline. One the things people have mentioned on the forums is that they like being able to create their own characters for solo gaming.

OTH, it seems like it would be more dramaticaly appropriate to have a pre-made *background* with character *effectiveness* (choosing skills, equipment, starting balance, etc.) customized by the player. Any preferences either way?

I could see a game like this being packaged like a standard boxed adventure.  Extensive maps, a "world-book" to help players learn some background on where the adventure takes place, a miniature with a MageKnight like base to keep track of... whatever, maybe the light/shadow/dark aspect.  

That's a little out of my budget. :) I don't know if I'll actually have the time and ability to write a complete series of these, but as I'm designing, I'm trying to approach it from the standpoint that I'm going to. IOW, I'm trying to behave as though I'm in the design phase of a project I'm actually going to complete, rather than a "gee, it would be cool if" kind of thing. It's easy to design projects that you'd have to be WotC to produce. :)

Right now the plan is to make these strictly paper oriented, each adventure being about magazine length (150 - 200 paragraphs).

If not a miniature, then some sort of icon or token that the player could use to keep track of the characters location on the maps.  

Yes, this is important. I'm thinking a single sheet for cardstock counters / paper figures, would be good. Also, the special 8 sided game die would be printed on the sheet, to be cut out and glued. :)

I'll take two.  Wrap one up and I'll read the other on the way home. ;)

Hehe, thanks Chris. This is the kind of feedback that makes you want to stop toying with design, and start writing the project! :)

[C. Edwards]

Yes, this is important. I'm thinking a single sheet for cardstock counters / paper figures, would be good. Also, the special 8 sided game die would be printed on the sheet, to be cut out and glued. :)

Does anyone else have this pet peve?  I love dice but I absolutely despise paper dice.  Personally, I would much prefer, say, a spinner like in Twister.  Also, I would think that a counter/character token could be made out of cardstock where the bottom piece turns (like a Mage-Knight base, what is it with that game?) and the top piece has a little window where you can read whatever stat or stats are being kept track of.  I've seen little drink mixing cardstock disks like that, you rotate to the drink you want to make and in the window is a list of ingredients.

OTH, it seems like it would be more dramaticaly appropriate to have a pre-made *background* with character *effectiveness* (choosing skills, equipment, starting balance, etc.) customized by the player. Any preferences either way?

If you can figure out a way to create focused and dramatic adventures for characters that are generated by players after the fact, more power to you.  The mostly pregenerated character solution is just a great deal easier, not necessarily more desirable.

Will the only facet of a character that affects adventure decisions be the light/shadow/dark aspect, or will there potentially be choices like "To overcome this obstacle using Sorcery turn to page 38, to use Martial Skill turn to page 52, to use Wits turn to page 124"?  

It seems to me that the more variables that can affect the path taken in an adventure the more difficult it will become to construct adventures that aren't focused for a particular type of character.  I think the cost of letting players construct their own characters would be a somewhat generic feel to the adventures. Perhaps pre-gen characters would allow you to focus more on giving the characters a wider variety of meaningful and dramatic choices, instead of a wide variety of choices where only a third apply to any given character.

Hehe, thanks Chris. This is the kind of feedback that makes you want to stop toying with design, and start writing the project! :)

No problem, the more encouragement I give the quicker I get to play! ;)

-Chris

[Paganini]

Does anyone else have this pet peve?  I love dice but I absolutely despise paper dice.  Personally, I would much prefer, say, a spinner like in Twister.

As a rule, I don't like paper dice either. However, octohedrons are very stable, and behave well, even when made out of cardstock. This is the reason, incidentally, I decided on 8 siders for the system. :)

But, the thing is, I'm trying to come up with a way to do this so that I might actually be able to make a product. IOW, I need to be able to do it with paper and a printer. No extra bits to buy like spinners.

Also, I would think that a counter/character token could be made out of cardstock where the bottom piece turns (like a Mage-Knight base, what is it with that game?) and the top piece has a little window where you can read whatever stat or stats are being kept track of.  I've seen little drink mixing cardstock disks like that, you rotate to the drink you want to make and in the window is a list of ingredients.

This is not a bad idea. I'm thinking of something like those old Secret Decoder dials. Couldn't you put them together with just paper fasteners?

Will the only facet of a character that affects adventure decisions be the light/shadow/dark aspect, or will there potentially be choices like "To overcome this obstacle using Sorcery turn to page 38, to use Martial Skill turn to page 52, to use Wits turn to page 124"?  

I intend to use the old staples extensively. Like  "To call Cthulhu, add the digits of the phone number and turn to that section." (To steal an example from Steve Jackson) This will include things like character skills, whether or not you have a particular item, etc. I don't want to go overbearing with the light/shadow/dark stuff. If I constantly hit people with it at every turn, it'll seem overbearing and defeat the coolness of it.

The idea I have in mind is something like Lone Wolf. You have a more or less set character background in terms of major events. But the player gets to choose skills that have a game effect.

Maybe something simpler would be in order, along the lines of a Saves system. IOW, "if you wish to try and climb the wall, roll a save vs. Athletics. Turn to 12 if you win, turn to 56 if you fail." The character would have a bunch of attributes that the player could distribute points to at the beginning of the game.

[C. Edwards]

The idea I have in mind is something like Lone Wolf. You have a more or less set character background in terms of major events. But the player gets to choose skills that have a game effect.

Will there be multiple (like 3 or 4) adventure outcomes?  The thing I really disliked about the Lone Wolf books was that no matter which actions you took the book always rerouted you back into THE storyline.  The "choices" the books offered were really just "what encounter do you want to have before we put you back on the main road?".  You could manage to diverge from the main plot for maybe 2 or 3 sections then WHAM!, magically back on the singular story path.  You either died or made it to THE end.

Maybe something simpler would be in order, along the lines of a Saves system. IOW, "if you wish to try and climb the wall, roll a save vs. Athletics. Turn to 12 if you win, turn to 56 if you fail." The character would have a bunch of attributes that the player could distribute points to at the beginning of the game.

How about just assigning priorities to to whatever aspect of the characters you decide to include, like what TRoS does (assign a rating from A to F for things like race, social standing, skills, etc).  Each rating has a set number attached to it.  So assigning a priority of B to my character's combat skills would give him better combat capability then if I had assigned D.  This would greatly simplify character creation I would think.

This is not a bad idea. I'm thinking of something like those old Secret Decoder dials. Couldn't you put them together with just paper fasteners?

Aye, or rivets, depending on the thickness of the cardstock.

Right now the plan is to make these strictly paper oriented, each adventure being about magazine length (150 - 200 paragraphs).

People could subcribe to the bi-monthly adventurezine, hmmm.....

-Chris

[ADGConscience]

This thread keeps exciting me because these extremely cool, innovative ideas keep popping up in my mind. Sadly, I'm a little dumb, and they stay just at the edge of my consciousness. So what I'll do is rearrange the breadcrumbs and see if anyone else gets the same idea.

The turning wheel offers a lot of possibilities, not just for resolution but for nuanced resolution, like, "fight monster" plus "use sorcery".

I've seen little drink mixing cardstock disks like that, you rotate to the drink you want to make and in the window is a list of ingredients.

Way back in my day, before you kids with your CD keys and your hula hoops, wheels were used as a kind of copy protection. In Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (four floppies, ran on a 386, but you kids with your cable modems and your chewing gum wouldn't appreciate that), you'd match a color with a plane type you see in a window, then those two combine to give you a result on the outer ring of the wheel.

There definitely could be a paper "map" and counters. You could provide small-scale maps, or customizable ones.

Really, for character templates and moving around on a map, a game it'd be extremely worthwhile to see and play was the old Games Workshop game Dungeonquest, which compelled you to play round after round while simultaneously sapping your will to live. (It was originally developed in Scandinavia.) It was not at all a choose-your-own adventure, but the GW board games were good at providing a modicum of character customization inside a limited gameplay context.

I think having a certain openness in character concept and design is a good thing. I understand that accounting for variances can be extremely difficult if its taken too far, though. (Of course you could just use an exaggerated Director stance: "If you stand and fight, turn to page 23 and write down what happens.") I think the thing to remember is that role-playing and Narrativism are the major priorities for the design of this game.

Here's one idea that made it all the way into my brain, to account for some variances in skills, spells, the presence of certain items, etc.: say you fight a monster, and you have an oddly glowing sword. Say the basic resolution is in section 40. Having the sword might add 3 to the section number, or sorcery might add 5. So section 48, if you have both, describes the casting of the spell and the result of the sword's effect on the monster.

(edited to correct an embarassing typo)

[Evan Waters]

In the past I've been interested myself in making a full-functioning solo game. Primarily this was because it took a while for me to get involved with a gaming group, so between the time I dragged my dad and brother through TOON, D&D and STAR WARS adventures and got to play with some other group there was something like a ten year gap. (I compensated for the void by running groups of characters through my own adventures, feigning ignorance of upcoming events- I still do this sometimes.)

The one problem I see is replayability. Most solo games are based on the CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE model, which is to say they're a bit like a single-player video game, where you've got to overcome the obstacles in a particular adventure or module. Once played, you know what's going to happen, so it tends to be the same game if you replay it. The question would then be how to add some kind of modularity or randomness to it so that you can play over and over again, while not being so random as to be implausible or just incoherent. ("Okay, I killed the dragon- what, there's another one in the next room?!")

One game that got ever-so-close to this was, I think, GW's WARHAMMER QUEST, which was a big expensive HEROQUEST-type thing with miniatures and floor tiles. The idea was you'd pick an end room and goal from the Quest Book (or something, don't have it with me), but between the entrance and there the dungeon could be laid out in just about any manner (you drew cards to see what room was next and what encounter was there), so you wouldn't know what kind of encounter was coming up. Tended towards the random side, obviously, but it was more successful at this sort of thing than any other game I've run across before or since.

So, unpredictability needs to be a big factor in creating what would, to me, be a truly successful solo RPG.

[Paganini]

Replying to Chris and Evan:

Will there be multiple (like 3 or 4) adventure outcomes?  The thing I really disliked about the Lone Wolf books was that no matter which actions you took the book always rerouted you back into THE storyline.

Exactly, Chris, that's the entire point. I'm thinking of 4 endings: The Good ending, the Bad ending, the Grey ending, and the Dead ending. (One of the features of these books is that your character can die, but there's only one death outcome per adventure. You have to work up to it. No "you run down the hallway. Roll a d10 to see if you die.")

How about just assigning priorities to to whatever aspect of the characters you decide to include, like what TRoS does (assign a rating from A to F for things like race, social standing, skills, etc).  Each rating has a set number attached to it.  So assigning a priority of B to my character's combat skills would give him better combat capability then if I had assigned D.  This would greatly simplify character creation I would think.

Not sure I see the advantage in this. Why letter ratings, rather than numbers?

Evan:

Replayability the games I have in mind would arise from the fact that there are multiple paths. Not just multiple ways to get to the same exit point, but multiple exit points. So you could play the game through in one direction and become the savior of the universe. You could replay it again in a different direction and become the Dark Lord of Terror.

And when you've done so, you continue on from that point as the DL or the SotU in the next adventure.

[Demonspahn]

Hi there,

Just wanted to say I think this is a great idea.  I really like the idea of CYoA and solo adventures.  

I was wondering though, rather than print, these books seem like they are tailor made for PDF---hyperlinks to take you to the next section, etc.  Also, as a PDF you could have the game work around a big map of, say a dungeon.  When a character enters a room, he can click on one of the available exit options (north door, south door, etc.) listed where the bookmarks usually are maybe, and it will take him to the room beyond.  

Also, and I'm not a tech guy so I don't know if this would even be possible, but I think it would be cool if the PDF included some type of dice bot/die roller and depending on the outcome of the roll, it would automatically take you to the result (win=get treasure or lose=Dead ending).  

Anyway, just some thoughts.  Sounds cool though.

Pete

[Paganini]

Ooh! Ooh! Yeah! I had this in mind as PDF for print, but a map with hyperlinks, that's too cool!

[Paganini]

I'm doing some more ground work for the solo games. Here's some questions for you potential consumers:

Given that the character in these adventures is going to be pre-defined by me, then customized by the player (something along the lines of Lone Wolf), what sort of character would you like the adventures to center around? The choices are anything that would fit into a quasi-medieval fantasy setting.

Examples: Warrior, thief, wizard, artisan, etc.

Ethnicity is fine too: Elf, Dwarf, Barbarian, Goblin, Orc, etc.

And what about gender?


Now, given your character idea, what moral dilemmas do you feel would be the most important ones the character would face?

[ADGConscience]

Leave it gender-free?