Question on Different Types of Magic

[Lucien Black]

Brian, mind if I appropriate that idea for future use in my games?  It is just far too cool to let go. . . *rubs hands together gleefully*  Just one thought, how's the sorceror know who has this minor bit of sorcerous power, and therefore who's appropriate for his plans?  (sensing life force energy perhaps?... see my comments/questions on Vision in the Sorcerous Limitations thread for what I mean)

But really, that is a truly awesome idea you had.

Lucien

[Stephen]

Well, the classic elements are Air, Earth, Fire and Water, and you can handle pretty much all of those with Sculpture, Movement and Growth... Growth in particular is very elemental, as it's the classic Vagary for facilitating rapid, well, growth in crops and ecosystems -- life and nature, in other words.  Particularly fine controlled change may also require Vision 2 or 3, so you can see what you're doing.

For weather control, you want to use Sculpture and Movement over wide areas, again possibly combined with Vision to see what you're working with.  Given the high CTNs any kind of practical weatherworking is going to run you, it should probably be limited to Rituals/Spells of Many.

A simple Movement 3 applied to the molecules of the air is quite capable of generating either a lightning bolt or a fireball-equivalent plasma burst (plasma is simply superheated gas).  In fact, a Plasma Blast could be a very dangerous spell for a comparatively low CTN:

Target: 0 or 1 (depending on whether the Seneschal considers air as "incorporeal" or "inanimate object")
Range:  2 (line of sight; "touch" would get you as badly burned as whatever you're hitting)
Volume: 1-3 (depending on how much area you want to scorch, but a "1" would be all that's necessary to inflict lethal damage to a single target)
Duration: 0
Level: 3 (Movement 3, Acceleration 3)

Final CTN Range:  Spell of One, 6 to 9
thus Potential DR:  6 to 9 + casting successes

As for shielding, that would be either Movement (for physical shields as per the Armor of Air spell) or Banishing (for a shield against magic).

[Brian Leybourne]

Brian, mind if I appropriate that idea for future use in my games?  It is just far too cool to let go. . . *rubs hands together gleefully*  Just one thought, how's the sorceror know who has this minor bit of sorcerous power, and therefore who's appropriate for his plans?  (sensing life force energy perhaps?... see my comments/questions on Vision in the Sorcerous Limitations thread for what I mean)

But really, that is a truly awesome idea you had.

Lucien

Yeah man, go for your life.

I'm picturing applicants who want to join the group are secretly screened using a vision 3 based spell to examine the properties of their blood and see if they "have what it takes" (no reason for the sorcerer to do this, he could invent a screening spell and embed it into the group leader).

Those who are suitable have their magic embued into them in a series of extremely long rituals (so the sorcerer can devote as many dice as possible to resist aging; note that since he's getting so much out of this, he probably has an SA or two devoted to this area so that's even more dice). Strictly under the rules each embedded spell is a one-use, so either group members have to regularly come back to base for a spells top-up or you have to come up with a justification for multi-use embedded spells. Hmm.. actually, I don't like that much, lets stay within the rules and say they're one use only, but the sorcerer embeds several at once, say. Actually, that's good, because it means the group member has to keep coming back for a top up, so you can keep an eye on them, and also refresh the extra spell you added in there secretly (see below). Also, you can charge them in some fashion for the magic, so you have a source of income as well as a goup of willing slaves and age sinks.

As for the extra spell, well, lets see...

T3 (the new group member), R1 (touch), V0 (soul only), D3 (weeks), L3 (Summoning 3, Imprisonment 2, Conquor 3) -2 for formulisation.

So overall, a TN8 ritual that takes 8 hours to cast and is slipped in with the other rituals that embed the spells they can use. Summoning  brings forth a portion of the targets spirit, and Imprisonment traps it within the sorcerers own body. Conquer 3 grants Implant 3, Control 3 and Repress 1, causing the target to willingly accept what's going on, and force it to "willingly" accept a portion of the aging that should go to the sorcerers soul every time he casts a spell in the future, but instead is shared around the shards of other souls he has imprisoned within his own soul. Repress 1 makes the target unaware that this is even going on. Finally, should it ever be necessary, Control 3 means that the sorcerer can use the target in any way necessary, as an example or as a soldier or even as a time bomb if he implants another nasty spell. The duration component with summoning 3 means that this spell will last for one week per casting success, at which time the target should be coming in for a "top up" of his other embedded spells anyway.

Or something like that, that's just off the top of my head and needs refinement, but it's pretty close to what I'll be doing, I imagine.

If you have any thoughts, share them.

Brian.

[Lucien Black]

Thoughts:

-have the sorcerer use some brainwashing techniques, with a magical twist... say, each time an age sink/slave casts an embedded spell, it gives him a rush of pleasure, likewise whenever the sorcerer casts a spell and the age sink takes the aging, they feel a similar rush of pleasure ("My Master's power flows through me!")

-theortically, it seems as if the sorcerer could, with a large enough pool of slaves, throw almost all his dice into one spell (were he so inclined) without worrying about using dice to resist aging, since all the aging goes to his followers... he still wouldn't want to do that too often, or he'd age all his followers to death, but for that big climactic battle....

-since he already has  a portion of their souls, why let them go when they die?  perhaps a contingent spell could be embedded in each follower so that when they die, the soul returns to the sorcerer and reforms as an undead spirit under his command ("There is no release in death for those who break my edicts.".....   "Killing my followers does you no good, for they serve me even in death.")  Of course, this depends on what sort of abilities the undead have in TROS for usefulness, which I'm not sure of.

-Just to make sure each one returns for spell upkeep in time, Implant an unconcious command to return when the spell's duration is near expiration


I love being evil.

Lucien

[prophet118]

i dont agree with the new line of reasoning here... no gm in their right mind would let someones aging be used on someone else....i know its just a nameless npc, but that makes the pc too strong, and screws up game balance... but what do i know, you guys hijacked my thread..lol

[Brian Leybourne]

i dont agree with the new line of reasoning here... no gm in their right mind would let someones aging be used on someone else....i know its just a nameless npc, but that makes the pc too strong, and screws up game balance... but what do i know, you guys hijacked my thread..lol

I was never talking about letting a PC do those things, it's an evil sorceror thing.

What I would allow is for a PC to join this interesting group he's heard about where initiation gives you some interesting powers. Blam, instant campaign material as the PC and/or his friends slowly realise something is wrong and they start to investigate.

BTW - I like the rush of power idea, get your slaves addicted to using the magic so you know they'll always come back for more. Easy to do with Conquer 2 as well. And as for undead, well, OBAM has rules for that, and yeah, they would fit nicely in with what we've discussed so far, especially if the sorcerer uses the "special" rule from chapter 7... :-)

Brian.

[prophet118]

well the typical problem would be this, "if the evil sorceror can do it, then it is possible, so i want to"...

thats usually the reasoning behind alot of players i have seen... its a two way street, if you let an idea like this in, and only the bad guy can do it, then the players will be slightly peeved im sure... however if you let them do it, it ruins the game

[Brian Leybourne]

well the typical problem would be this, "if the evil sorceror can do it, then it is possible, so i want to"...

thats usually the reasoning behind alot of players i have seen... its a two way street, if you let an idea like this in, and only the bad guy can do it, then the players will be slightly peeved im sure... however if you let them do it, it ruins the game

Well, it comes down to how you want to roleplay, doesn't it.

If a player wants to spend weeks at a stretch performing day long rituals on innumerable age slaves, keeping and maintaining them, performing the day to day administration of the group, chasing down those who have not been in for their top up, etc, then that's fine - he can sit in a corner and roll dice while everyone else actually roleplays.

Oh yeah, sounds like real fun to me.

Brian.

[prophet118]

and in return, i now say, and this villian has time to do villianous deeds when?

what works for the players works for the npcs, you know that...

its a nice double edged sword.

[Brian Leybourne]

The villain has different priorities than the character, obviously.

He might be quite content to spend his time maintaining this; it brings him immortality, plenty of money, slaves who will (eventually) do anything for their next hit of "pleasure" even though they started off with noble ideals perhaps, and so on. Additionally, he gets a few days off a week to get out and spend his ill-gotten loot and perhaps overthrow a kingdom or two.

Hell, sounds good to me :-)

... but it would be boring to roleplay because there's so much downtime. Good for NPC's, useless for PC's.

Brian.

[prophet118]

so the villian, is only a villian in the Dr. Evil sense of the term... in that he is a mastermind, but doesnt actually do much himself...

hate to harp on it... but im sure a player could very well do the same thing, in fact it tends to happen in alot of elder games, in Vampire the Masquerade, the elders ghouls take care of all the work...gets rather boring if you ask me..

however all im saying is simple, dont give your npcs advantages that you wouldnt give your players...

[Brian Leybourne]

Sigh. This is the last time I will bother replying because you are literally sucking my will to live.

The villain is doing plenty. He's turning people into slaves and drones, projecting his age into them and slowly poisoning their minds.

Why? To make himself rich, immortal and all powerful.

Sounds to me like a perfect villain to track down and destroy.

If this kind of thing is what your players/characters enjoy doing, then all power to them and I pity you. In the groups I play with, characters are about adventuring and being the heroes. Yes, "Shades of grey" heroes occasionally, but there's a conspicuous absense of PC's enslaving scores of people for their own power and greed.

Your group can do whatever it likes, I couldn't care less.

Brian.

[prophet118]

you dont have to turn into a jerk over this, i was simply asking questions, isnt that what we are supposed to do?... you have to make sure you cover every angle... sure your players may be the upright outstanding citizens in game.... maybe they are paragons of virtue... but not everyone can be graced with such players, so why not explore questions posed to you, instead of being a jerk about it?...

it makes you sound so much better when you are nice

[Brian Leybourne]

You're right, I apologise.

I'm at work at the moment, and it's not a good day (and it's not even midday yet. Sigh). You know what it's like.

I even once had a group that has a few players like the ones you describe, but I now choose not to play with people like that, so I can't really advise you as to how to cope with them.

As I said, I occasionally have players playing rogues and cutpurses, but they are usually the more "Robin Hood" or "Mathew Broderick from Ladyhawk" kind of thief. We're not into roleplaying actual evil characters; just don't enjoy it.

I agree with you that what's good for an NPC is good for a character. I guess I'm lucky in that my characters don;t want to do that stuf. And as I said, even if they did it would be bloody boring to roleplay, the player would be rolling a few dice here and there while he casts full day rituals, and watching with envy as the rest of the group actually have fun roleplaying. It's a self-balancing situation.

On top of all that, the player would have to work out how to make the control spell, and if I have decided that the NPC only managed it because he is using the blood of a Hameh* to power the ritual, then the PC is going to have to work that out somehow, and then find out, so he's out of luck :-)

Again, I apologise for my tone.

Brian.

* Actually quite fitting to the situation, since they're formed from the bodies of gifted who died without ever developing sorcery. OBAM again, sorry - I just love making references to it, so shoot me :-)

[Lyrax]

*Shoots Brian*

Dagnabbit.  That bullet couldn't quite make it across the Pacific Ocean.  But when I try again, it shall be with a much better gun and a better bullet!