Last(?) Combat Question

[Supplanter]

The combat section in HB Sorc is much clearer than the old text. I think I'm just about there. One last thing I wonder: The rules seem to suggest that there are circumstances in which my victories this round count as damage this round and bonuses next round. Is that true always, sometimes or never?

Also, I was rereading the pdf &Sword. It talks about saving up victories to cancel out "non-victory dice (yours or your opponent's)," and that this is a way to get some Total Victories going. I completely see how cancelling out non-victory dice of your opponent can be useful. I don't understand the concept and use of cancelling out your own non-victory dice.

Best,


Jim

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Jim,

This is Henley Answer #2 of the day. I should like to point out that he asked TWO questions in this one, not just one as the thread title implies. It's like finding two Grendel-mama-size ice weasels in the cave, instead of one.

"The combat section in HB Sorc is much clearer than the old text. I think I'm just about there. One last thing I wonder: The rules seem to suggest that there are circumstances in which my victories this round count as damage this round and bonuses next round. Is that true always, sometimes or never?"

Always true. The victories of a successful roll apply to the action of a given round, for which they were rolled, and they may ALSO be rolled into bonuses for a subsequent roll, if the second action flows from the first in a causal way.

"Also, I was rereading the pdf &Sword. It talks about saving up victories to cancel out "non-victory dice (yours or your opponent's)," and that this is a way to get some Total Victories going. I completely see how cancelling out non-victory dice of your opponent can be useful. I don't understand the concept and use of cancelling out your own non-victory dice."

Say you have three dice "saved"for cancelling. You get a successful 5-dice roll on someone, with two victories and three dice below his highest value. Well, hell, cancel your own non-victory dice and you have a two-dice Total Victory, which in some way is going to be better than a two-dice success that wasn't Total.

Why do this to your dice instead of his? It depends on the number and distribution of his dice. Say this fellow had rolled EIGHT dice, and every single one came up lower than your two highest dice, and higher than your lowest dice. You only have three dice, so cancelling three of his eight has no game effect at all. But cancelling three of your three non-victory dice gives you Total Victory, as above.

In other words, I'm allowing maximal strategic use of the saved dice; you may cancel yours or his, whichever is better for you. This is the mechanic that allows characters to "play" with opponents, or duck and cover without being hurt (i.e. reducing successful rolls to 0 victories and saving them) while setting up the crucial opening.

And no, I have not inserted Gamism. Just in case anyone's on that hobby horse today.

Best,
Ron

[Supplanter]

This is Henley Answer #2 of the day. I should like to point out that he asked TWO questions in this one, not just one as the thread title implies. It's like finding two Grendel-mama-size ice weasels in the cave, instead of one.

Faced with such a situation, simply summon The Grip of Thirty, and rip they arm straight off a both of them.

Besides, these were total softball ice weasels, to mix a metaphor.

(Snip explanations.)

Eureka!

I get it! I really get it!

Thank you thank you thank you. At long last, in only ten times the duration it would take someone of normal intelligence, I really understand how Sorcerer combat is supposed to work.

I'm tentatively thinking that the cancellation system may actually be the coolest thing in The Sorcerer Family of Games because it provides for sudden reversals, which is something I've been discussing in e-mail with Valamir and Scott Knipe.

Best,


Jim

[hardcoremoose]

Not having actually purchased Sorcerer & Sword  (please, let's keep the heckling down in front), this is the first I've heard of the cancellation rules.  I agree with Jim - it's a damn cool mechanic that I wish I had known about before.  And like Jim, I immediately thought of the intrinsic narrative potential underlying it, as opposed to the strategic/gamist quality it could potentially provide.  

Very cool stuff.

Take care,
Scott    

[Ron Edwards]

Scott and everyone,

The cancellation-victory rules in Sorcerer & Sword are extremely dangerous, and I suggest using them only in games in which combat is central to conflict resolution and strongly linked to emotional/thematic content. The uncertainty and fear that arises from regular Sorcerer combat can become more of a mow'em-down situation if the cancelling rules are applied freely.

I suggest thinking in terms of all the character's features - are Cover, Humanity, Stamina, Will, and perhaps even Lore "focused together" during this combat? Also consider the metagame/Narrativist context: is this a situation in which everyone at the table is attentive and engaged? These aren't rules, merely suggestions - the idea is to have the cancelling really hit hard and be special, not just an ongoing way to wax a foe because you're a bad-ass.

Best,
Ron