hidden information and Narrativism

[xiombarg]

In various threads regarding Unsung, particularly during play, Mike points to the idea some of the players have had that information hiding is okay (while others shared all information, even OOC "secrets") to be an indication of incoherent play.

He sites it as a minor issue, but I have to admit it confused me.

Did I miss the bus on this one? Can someone point me to a thread? Since when is hiding information incompatible with, say, Narrativism -- or ANY of the GNS modes?

Now, I understand how full information sharing can facilitate Narrativism. But I also happen to believe an occasional old-fashioned surprise can be fun, and that surprising, say, your fellow players with a plot twist shared with a slect few (perhaps only the GM, perhaps no one) can be interesting. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned.

Now, I know older RPGs often exaggerated the fun value of a surprise, and often it was a Gamist thing ("How do I react to this new tactical challenge?") or a Simulationist thing ("Your character wouldn't know that, so you don't need to know it either"). But I happen to like surpises, regardless of GNS mode -- how is that incoherent?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Kirt,

The answer is, "No."

I think you're pulling a very local issue about a game in playtest into a more general, theoretical sphere that isn't going to help much.

To put it in a nutshell, hidden information by anyone when role-playing is a "technique," or perhaps a whole bunch of techniques depending on the details.

No technique is, in and of itself, "coherent" or "incoherent." Those terms only apply to the play experience as a whole. If you want to address whether the particular way information was kept hidden or not kept hidden contributed to play being incoherent or coherent, that's fine - but it's limited to the session(s) in question and not about whether a particular technique "is" or "isn't" anything.

Best,
Ron

[Matt Snyder]

I guess I see it as a stance issue, which would make secrets compatible (or not) with any of the modes. (EDIT: Fixed grammar error.)

For example, let's say the name of the game is Director stance. Given that you (the player) don't know key elements of the game, how are you going to make relevant Directorial decisions for your character if you're ignorant?

[Ron Edwards]

Hi there,

Matt's right. Dealing with revealing or concealing information (by anyone from anyone; I'm not specifying GM or not) is a moment-to-moment concern in play, very much like Stance. And it's certainly relevant to Stance.

GNS classifications, or using that vocabulary in any way, refers to much larger units of play. We'd look at the circumstances and shifts in Stances, look at the circumstances and revelations (or hidings) of inforrmation, and think about the patterns or trends, not snap a tag on each little moment.

Best,
Ron

[xiombarg]

Hmmm, okay. I was just heavily confused, was all. I appreciate the clarification.

I am interested, however, as a broader issue, as how techniques like information illuminate and/or discourage different kinds of play.

[Mike Holmes]

My bad.

Mike