My Game "Crucible of Legends (Need Mechanics Help)

[Mandris_Arcanis]

First off let me be perfectly clear, This game will be published either in POD direct sales formatt, sold at CONs, and hopefully eventually garnering a distributor and gaining store access. And yes i know that this marketing model will take a long time. But time I have.


Second: a brief game synpsis. I am going to speak those dread eight words "I am writing a fantasy Role-playing game" BUT after reading Ron's essays I am here to get all the help I can to prevent it from being a Heartbreaker.

The purpose of this game is to support the type/style of literature stories I read as a youth that frankly D&D doesn't . Moorecock, Herbert,and yest Tolkien. I want the players to be able to forge characters that are truely legendary and that the rules are moree about what you can do than you can't. And I feel I have that. But the problem is I'm afraid that the base character generation system and class structure runs a framework similar to D&D. so does this simple fact doom me to HB status?

Meaning since Ability scores are randomly generated is that to much like D&D? (even though it's 3d10+10, giving you a range from 13-43)

and because the classes have (gasp) LEVELS!

System overview:

Basic system is designed to keep players from having to looks stuff up during play. Thus this makes things flow better. most rolls are on d% low is good/ high bad. If you have a skill and you re doing something that is easy (no chance of failure) there is no roll) if there is a chance of failure there is a roll at no minus, etc. anyone can use any skill untrained. the skills the start with are the ones they are really good at.

Combat mechanic is take your combat % minus target def (which is Agil)  roll that or less is a hit. a 10% is a auto hit a 5% or less is a critical hit. If you want to perform a called/trick shot half the roll.  if the called shot is made you get to choose where the blow goes and the damage is increased by 50%. Body Points in this game are divided by body area kind of like a mechs armor in battletech. Also you class does NOT determine your Body points like in D&D. Your race/Health does.

There are common sense combat mechanics in play:

example if you have 15 points in your left arm. when it is reduced to 0 it is broken. when it is reduced to -15  it is gone. so if a grizzly bear comes up and does 41 points of damage to that arm. (chomp) you just lost that arm. You need make a TOP (Threshhold of Pain roll to remain consious)

If this happens to the Head or Chest (where all the vitals are... your dead)

In this game the PC earns points to spend gaining new powers, abilities, racial powers., etc.
one of the primary focuses of this game is the four elements and the Elder God forged the four racial groups out of the 4 elements and each gains mystical abilities that nobody else gains from this. This also causes the other races to distruct each other.

Aside from Human there are 13 other racial types broken down into 3 elemental sections.

The ability scores (Strength, Agility, etc. also are governed by the elements) This fact is causing me to consider moving from a random roll system to a point by system. I am open to help/suggestions here.

The Magic system is devided into 10 circles of magical power with NO pre writtle spells etc. The spell caster has a mana pool of power to draw from and a number of circles to access (typically 2 two start) and all the powers within a circle are broken down ala carte on cards with coresponding point costs. So the caster will have a small power deck foor each circle (this will come on a CD-ROM and be printable) nd at the table the construclt a spell on the fly. This only bogs down play if the player wants to construct a really complicated spell, and at that point it should damn well take his caster a while to cast) because time marches on.


We currently play this game and have through it's various incarnations.

If I have left anything out ask.

[contracycle]

OK.  To be frank, I don't particularly like the mechanisms as described; they do nothing for me and are to based on a presumption of causality.  So therefore I would like to ask:

What is the central Big Idea you have for this game?

Aspiring to "create legendary characters" is all very well, but vague, as statements of intent are wont to be.

[Mandris_Arcanis]

As all characters advance throughout their career they gain points (haven't decided on a name for them yet) XP for lack of something better but unlike  in D&D these are not static. The player can use these to customise his character, raise ability scores, gain new powers, or go up in their class level.

Racial abilities and class abilites are key in this game as well as the fact that ALL people can access magic in some fome. The whole worle is forged in magic (as were the the races and classes).

So everything being linked back to the the Elements may be the "Big  Idea" you are asking about.

lastly, I don't understand your causality statement concerning mechanisms. what about them as presented don't you like? Perhaps I'm just presenting them poorly.

[contracycle]

I'm seeing a lot of references to D&D, but why, when there are so many other games out there to draw on.

Causality: choose "race" get X bennies, choose class get X bennies, add bennies and roll for result etc etc.  There are many alternatives, such as the freeform chargen of HW/HQ, or the mutability of Fudge and whatnot.

You've got XP, race + class, this all seems very conventional to me.  No offence but it sounds like one of a whole stable of D&D referenced games.  Although not directly D&D related, all these aspects appeared in Shadowrun.

So if the 4 elements are the big idea, what is it that attracts you to this as a big idea, and how does that get put centre stage as the point of the game?

[Mandris_Arcanis]

Well first off i have distinct and different races each with their own advantages and disadvantages. In this game all races get 6 things that no other race gets. These are the things that make them Elf or Dwarf or Human or whatever.

Secondly, It is a fantasy game, I did consider removing classes. If you do though I felt I looses the central reference that ost people are really used to. It's kind of like doing fantasy without Elves, Dwarves, or Thieves or a Warrior class.

I don't think causeality (i.e. freedom to make a lot of choices and end up with the character you want within a controlled framework is bad, isit?)

[contracycle]

Secondly, It is a fantasy game, I did consider removing classes. If you do though I felt I loses the central reference that most people are really used to. It's kind of like doing fantasy without Elves, Dwarves, or Thieves or a Warrior class.

... and that is the classic Hearetbreaker error.  You are trying to accomodate what you expect the audience to want, and that sends you on a loop of self-referentiality.  You can't really do anything innovative if your explicit aim is to do something the audience is already familiar with.  And if you DO produce something the audience is already familiar with... then why should it be interesting?  After all they've seen it all before, one way or another.

And yes, it would be like doing Fantasy without dwarves and elves... you say that like its a bad thing.

I don't think causeality (i.e. freedom to make a lot of choices and end up with the character you want within a controlled framework is bad, isit?)

I don't think its inherently problematic, but by choice I prefer to have as few steps as possible.  I cannot see any purpose in having mutliple stages of chargen in which decisions cscade from stage to stage - its much easier just to conceive a character whole, IMO.

[Mandris_Arcanis]

I think you miss my point. Let people play Teslanta (and what a booming success that was) if they want fantasy without Dwarves and Elves. The purposes of this game is to have these races and allow the players to explore them and the other races (and class choices) in a very ala carte style during chargen. Then to explore the depth and breadth of the new character in regards to his/her world to determine where they fit and how the strong pull of magic that flows through everything affects all people, places and things as well as nations, relationships, etc.

so I guess the game could appeal to the power mutchkin who wanted to play the cool game with the elemental races. But hopefully it would appeal to the other type of players as well who wanted to explore why God indwelled the powers of the  elements into the four racial groups and made them who and what they are.

Sometimes I get the idea that some of the people here want to change things in games (take out Elves and Dwarves for example) JUST to do it and be different. different JUST to be Different isn't cool, it's confusing. That's like changing a die mechanic just because you don't want to be percieved as similar to brand X or D20 or whatever.


just my thoughts.

[Matt Snyder]

The purposes of this game is to have these races and allow the players to explore them and the other races (and class choices) in a very ala carte style during chargen. Then to explore the depth and breadth of the new character in regards to his/her world to determine where they fit and how the strong pull of magic that flows through everything affects all people, places and things as well as nations, relationships, etc.

Very well. How does your game system let players do this in-depth exploration? I haven't yet seen how it avoids the Heartbreaker definition. What do the players go out and do when they play this game?

So far, you have revealed that the system is a straightforward percentile mechanic, and you highlighted the success/critical system for combat, as well as some general info. on magic rules. How do these rules differ in a substantial way from, say, D&D or Rolemaster or BRP, as examples? What kind of player behavior and player choices does your rules system reward? If it is combat and spell-slinging, then you're likely heading down the path of a heartbreaker.

As you pointed out yourself, changing the dice mechanic is not that different. Rightn now, we can't see how your roll-under percentile mechanic is differnt from BRP (Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest), or even from d20 + stuff = Target resolution found in D&D.

I can assure you that the bulk of games designed "here" have valid, well-thought reasons for why things have been done differently. For example, one key reason to be different is to avoid the "Fantasy Heartbreaker syndrome" you seem keen to avoid. I'm not seeing you achive that yet. What are your reasons for doing something different, and how are you going to create your game to achieve that?

[Mike Holmes]

Mandris,

Take a look at this page:
http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/bykeyword/traditional.html

Let's assume that your game is going to improve on D&D, same as every game on that page. How is your game going to improve upon the games on this page? Since they all are trying to do very much what you're trying to do. These are just the ones that people are or have given away for free. Doesn't even cover the Generic games which could be used to run standard fantasy, or systems that can easily be converted. Hero Quest was made to run Glorantha, but I've found it works well with any fantasy world.

If I'm a dissatisfied D&D player, how is your game going to appear better to me than Exalted? Because it's closer to D&D?

Mike