I really like Sorcerer but...

[Ian O'Rourke]

...I never know what to actually do with it?

I know this is a bit of a 'basic' question for these boards, and it's a bit of an embarrassing one to admit (I usually pride myself on being premise/concept guy), but it is a problem. I really like the product, and can't wait to get my hardback version, but that's about were it ends. In fact, I become Ron's worst nightmare: I buy the product because it's an interesting read.

I'm not sure what it is, part of me thinks it's the rules, but then I have no problem with Over the Edge and The Whispering Vault (which certainly have similarities). Could it be the fact the game gives you the bones and leaves a lot of the setting, concept and premise thing up to you?

It just never comes across as something you actually play to me? Could be the lack of structure, it's quite an open ended product?

Not sure, I could just be strange. Possibly some of these campaign settings to be sold on the web will help?

[Jared A. Sorensen]

Hey, Ian.

I've found that it helps to start by defining what "Humanity" and "Demon" really mean.  I think this is a major component of all the upcoming supplements (it certainly is with mine!).  While in Las Vegas, Ron and I talked about several interpretations of what demons really are and these definitions spawned a whole slew of ideas for Sorcerer game sessions.

So, what do the words "Demon" and "Humanity" mean to you?

- J

[Ian O'Rourke]

Mmmmm, slavering demonic entities from the netherworld - pretty stereotypical I know.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey Ian,

You may be a prime candidate for one or more of the mini-supplements. Now that has a good side and a bad side.

The Good: they'll provide setting, back-story, problems, definition, characters, and all sorts of goodies. They're not all alike, so you might want to pick the one(s) that provide what you need most.

The Bad: you've already paid Good Money for Sorcerer, and now I'm telling you to pay more, so you can PLAY it? That would be awful. I'm tempted to give you a copy of Demon Cops free when it's ready.

(Now back off, everyone, this isn't something I'd do for just anyone. Ian has been a Sorcerer booster from WAY back when, and if anyone deserves a break, he does.)

You also might want to adapt some pre-existing material to a sorcerous context. I'd suggest Honor's Veil (L5R), Wildest Dreams (Over the Edge), or perhaps some of the more open-ended Call of Cthulhu scenarios. You have "Soul," so I'd also suggest a real hard look at the three scenarios it includes.

Or here's another notion - break up that idea that the GM has to have all his shit together from the get-go. Have a couple of friends read Sorcerer and see what THEY want to do, then be the GM for that.

Hope some of this helps,
Best,
Ron

[Ian O'Rourke]

(Now back off, everyone, this isn't something I'd do for just anyone. Ian has been a Sorcerer booster from WAY back when, and if anyone deserves a break, he does.)

Yeah, making a special case might be 'difficult'. Surely having some of the designers of these packs detail some of their concepts to me would be good enough. Hell, Jared's doing one anyway, that's a good start. In fact Jared's sounds like it might be quite different to how I'd imagine it [the game].

You have "Soul," so I'd also suggest a real hard look at the three scenarios it includes.

I don't actually, it was Sorcerer and Sword I got.

Or here's another notion - break up that idea that the GM has to have all his shit together from the get-go. Have a couple of friends read Sorcerer and see what THEY want to do, then be the GM for that.

That's not a bad idea actually. I'll wait till I get the hardback book - I know, but it gets me passed one potential barrier - and I'll pass to a friend, see what he thinks. He's the other GM in the group, and when we hash out stuff, the results are usually pretty impressive.

Thanks.

[Ian O'Rourke]

On 2001-05-08 17:41, Jared A. Sorensen wrote:
So, what do the words "Demon" and "Humanity" mean to you?

Thinking about it, one of the things in the rulebook that really caught my attention was the comparison made to Twin Peaks? The idea that Laura Palmer was a young Sorcerer unable to control 'Bob' - and as a result I assume she was loosing humanity to the extent she killed herself.

That would be good, I've always wanted to run something Twin Peaks like. Crystal Falls, small town with strange goings on, just never overly envisioned it having Sorcerers in it?

But then may be my visuals on what a Sorcerer is now what's wrong?

[JSDiamond]

When I first read Sorcerer a couple of years ago I place a link to the site from my site with a comment that Sorcerer has a magic system WotC *wishes* they had.

The beauty of Sorcerer to me (in part) is the fact that it doesn't have a setting to go with it.  The reason?  Because Ron's role-play game makes magic seem *real* and possible in our present day world.  Personally, from day one I have always just assumed that the primary setting for Sorcerer would be *today* in the real world.  The contrast of normal and accepted disbelief (or at least, skepticism) to that of being a practitioner of a reality-altering science has always been a small part of the attraction of being a Sorcerer.  

I don't know how to eloquently describe it, -it's like Ron's game has magic and depth in it up the wazoo, certainly enough to satisfy any 'gamist' or 'narrativist'. Yet, he never steps so much as a hair's breadth toward fantasy.

It's *real*.  

My opinion, but that's how I get it.

Jeff Diamond

[james_west]

Soul of the Sorceror pretty much solves the problem of what to do with the game. It's the first game-related material I've read in fifteen years that made me lust for an opportunity to try it out.

[Ron Edwards]

James, Jeff,

Many thanks for the kind comments. I'm hoping (and always have, in a sneaky, not-very-noble way) that Sorcerer and its two supplements act as catalysts, the way that Over the Edge did for me.

Best,
Ron

[greyorm]

...I never know what to actually do with it?

I've been waiting for a chance to bring this up: Scooby Doo.
Watch it.  Learn it.  Love it.  Cannabalize it.

This is a Sorcerer show if I ever saw it.
Scooby is obviously Shaggy's demon.  Heck, Velma might be Fred's demon! (a Passer)

But the best part is that you can take an episode's back story and the weird monsters and twist the whole "it's just a guy in a rubber mask" thing completely around.
The show is simply rife with ideas for conflicts.

[Ron Edwards]

I agree with Raven.

What I'd really like to know, though, is how do you spell that funny questioning, "HhhrUnk??" noise Scooby made when he was puzzled? That's my guess, anyway.

Best,
Ron

[joshua neff]

here i go getting off-topic, but "scooby-doo" is the first tv show/movie/book/comic/whatever that made an impact on me, & i've always had a huge spot in my heart for it...

anyway, i had an idea for a comic book miniseries that would be "scooby-doo" but in the "real" world--4 teenagers driving around america in a van w/ their dog in the 70's--except because it's the 70's, the kids are all doing drugs (especially the skinny slacker kid who thinks the dog is talking to him) & sleeping w/ each other...each issue would focus on a different place in america & tackle a different occult icon (like voodoo/hoodoo in new york, centered around disco)--& the occult stuff would be real, rather than "a guy in a rubber mask"...

you know, come to think of it, this could work as a "sorcerer" narrative...guess it's not as off-topic as i thought...have, as raven said, scooby as shaggy's demon (the "sorcerer" version of "scooby snacks" boggles the mind)...throw in all sorts of sex & drugs & sordid behavior...

well gang, looks like we've got another mystery on our hands...
zoinks!

[joshua neff]

okay, wait, i've thought some more about this--

3 player characters: fred, velma, & shaggy...

fred's demon is daphne, a passer
shaggy's demon is scooby
velma's demon is an object, her glasses ("i can't see a thing w/out my glasses!"), which would grant her perception & insight powers (hint, anyone?)

man, if i weren't at work right now, i'd write them up w/ "sorcerer" stats...

to quote johnny bravo: "jenkies? what the heck does that mean?"

[Ron Edwards]

Excuse me, but I was WATCHING Scooby Doo c. 1970, and it never occurred to me to doubt that Fred was sleeping with both of the women and that Scooby and Shaggy were enjoying their drugs right on screen. (Counter-cultural upbringing, folks; coast of California)

When these notions were presented as semi-humorous "insights" to me, years later, it boggled my mind that anyone could see that show as being anything but.

Best,
Ron

Scoobie-demon-doo!

[Jason L Blair]

It's the same with Sid and Mary Krofft. People thinkin' they're all sly with their deep insight. H. R. Pufnstuf? The Doo-bee? Get it, druuuuugs man. Yeah. I get it. And I do believe S&M "got it" too. What did they have to do, release a show called Hashish Henry and the Marijuana Kids? Slide that between Snuff & Blow (a wacky crime-fighting duo) and Pass The Ganja(a kiddie game show) and you've got the perfect 1970's Saturday morning.