Simple rules question (masteries)

[Matt Snyder]

Help my addled brain recall the mechanic for Masteries....

Suppose we have two opponents with the following ability ratings:

2W1 vs. 3W1.

Now, if I recall my reading rightly, Masteries cancel, correct? So, in this case, do these two abilites become: 2 vs 3? This doesn't seem correct, but I can't recall the appropriate solution either way. Any clarfications?

[Deadstop]

Yep, it'd be 2 vs. 3. This was a minor problem in Hero Wars that was covered by a special rule: if two contestants cancelled all of each other's masteries and then both rolled failures, it was treated as though both had rolled successes. However, I think in HQ the result is the same anyway (tie or marginal victory for the low result). The numbers look strange, but they work.


Stacy Forsythe

[Mike Holmes]

I think that Stacy is right. In any case, the effects are the same whether you cancel or not, if I'm not mistaken. That is, fail/fail is the same as success/success on the chart. And if you don't reduce more masteries, then the excess masteries end up bumping down success anyhow. Which means that the end effect would be as if you'd cancel to start.

Does that help? Basically, it doesn't matter if you cancel or not, the end result is the same. Cancellation at the start just makes the thinking easier. Remember that Fumble-Fail-success-Crit Success are all relative. What really matters is the level of victory, tie, marginal, minor, major, complete. If it helps, think of the Fumble to Crit success range as just numbers from 1 to 4. Add Masteries to these, and subtract them from each other to determine what level of Victory you obtain. Making this symetrical so that it works mathematically was one of the big improvements of HQ, IMO. I don't need the chart anymore.

Mike

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

It's also helpful if you consider the visuals of the two Masters both failing their rolls ... instead of two goofs swinging wildly and missing entirely, you're now looking at a corps-a-corps, or perhaps at the two of them thrown apart unhurt but discommoded by the whirlwind exchange.

For the literary-inclined, take a look at the brief physical conflict between Conan and Khemsa in The People of the Black Circle. The unarmed Tai-Chi guy meets the expert swordsman, and both are astonished after the first inconclusive clash, which each expected to win easily. Conan was wholly unprepared for the powerful blow he takes to the neck; Khemsa had to make a "most unwizardly bound backward." They fall back from one another, and you can practically see them searching up and down their character sheets for an alternate ability or a good augment.

Best,
Ron

[Matt Snyder]

Excellent, thanks for the clarification and examples, everyone. It strikes me that the terms "fumble," "failure," "success," and "critical" can be stumbling blocks, particularly "failure." I realize these are RuneQuest / BRP terms, and I can't immediately think of anything better. Still, it seems to me a (minor) case of legacy terms causing a bit of trouble.

No biggie. Thanks, my question is more than adequately answered.

[Valamir]

Yeah, in conjuction with Mike's "4 levels" above I prefer to think of them as "Advantage / Disadvantage" rather than "Success / Failure".  At least for the more subtle applications.