TROS Historical Style

[Charles Smith]

Guys (and gals!)~

   I'm not too new here, but I hardly ever post, so technically I'm new at this. Go easy on me :)

   I've owned the game (TROS) pretty much since it first came out in widespread retail and have never started a true campaign. I've also got OBAM (one of the better beastiaries out there, and mucho gracias for the flavor text, Brian!) and am itching to use them both. I do have a few questions before I start a campaign, however, so here goes...

1) I'm in love with actual history and want to create a kind of "dual" campaign- every other week I play with a separate group, and one wants to play Norse characters, while the other would like one based in Asia (Japan to be precise, especially after The Last Samurai came out). The Norse campaign won't be too hard to convert, but after reading the posts here about a possible supplement for asian stories, I'm wondering how hard it would be, game system-wise, to simulate weapons and armor of that age and culture (not too sure when that will be, either, because I haven't done enough research to see when Norse culture was at its height and where Japan was during that time). Any tips for me would be great.

... at this point I'll have to post the others later because my baby sister wants to go "bye-bye." I'll get back on in a few.

Charles

[Jake Norwood]

Good news: I'm working on a historically-based TROS Japan that focuses on the 16-1800s.

Bad news: Don't expect it until late summer.

I'm dying to play it, too.

Jake

[Ingenious]

As for the Vikings, they dominated the North Atlantic and northern seas of Europe from around 700 AD to the late 1000's. And to further plagarize an encyclopedia.. during the 700's was a period called Taika(The great reform) for Japan, and in 794.. Emporer Kammu set up his capital in Heiankyo, the site of modern day Kyoto. With the establishment of the new capital, a period of greatness began under the leadership of the Fujiwara family, which controlled both the emperor and the court of nobility. Their rule ended around 1160, when the Shogun warrior class came into power. Which ruled the country for about 700 years. About 1160 the Taira family succeeded the Fujiwaras as rulers.
So during all of this, Japan is coming into its own... while the Norsemen's control of the seas and North Atlantic was dwindling.. and so it could be said that their way of life was also.

Hope this helps at all.
-Ingenious
(Hopefully I can't be sued for plagarizing a 30 year old encyclopedia...)

[Lance D. Allen]

Speaking of The Riddle of Jade and the Last Samurai.. Definitely put this movie on your must-see for source material. I dunno that it would be good for information, as I can't nitpick for authenticity seeing as how I'm not a scholar of Japanese culture and history, but it would be awesome for themes.

The movie managed to avoid kewl powerz for the most part (closest I can see being the throwing of swords, and for all I know, that could have been a historically acceptable tactic in certain circumstances...) There were definitely a lot of SAs flying around, and also some redefinition of SAs. I can see Algran's character spending old SAs down to 0 to increase his swordsmanship, then redefining them to one's more appropriate to his changed outlook. Just for that almost-mythical Japan feel, this movie is a must-see.

[Ingenious]

Okay, enough about the movie. We've seen it, we've drooled over it, we've drooled over the idea of all of the extra footage and special feature on the DVD even. What made it perfect was the blend of story, action and story told withing action(flashbacks and such), and the complete lack of a sex scene at all.(Up yours televison!) For further reference to Japan at this time of revolution, and though I don't personally know who is an anime(edited to note that it's more of a manga than anime.) fan or hater on here.. check out the show 'Rurouni Kenshin'. My all-time favorite anime show. I could seriously talk your ear off about that show.

Anyways, what time period EXACTLY do you guys intend on playing in? That would help me further explore this topic and bring back some more info... however useless it may be.

-Ingenious

[Charles Smith]

Thanks for the info, and sorry I couldn't log on sooner to reply. Lil sis is gone for now, so I can take a deep breath and actually take some time...

Jake~ That is a very cool sounding supplement you're writing and I'm very much interested in this. Please keep us all posted! :)

Ingenious~ I was looking at playing the separate groups in the same timeframe, but it looks like I won't be able to because of that small 400 yr. history difference. I knew that would be a bit of a problem, though, but I was hoping to glaze it over. Basically, the Norse players would be based in the height of the Norse culture (1000-1100 ad?), and I was hoping that Japan's samurai were around the same time. I'll have to see what Japan looked like during the 11th century; the information you've provided really helps. Care to name the source?

Wolfen~ Definitely agree with your position on the movie, and this is what inspired some of my players. I'll have to do a little more research (i.e. see the movie ;)  ) to supplement my knowledge.

To say a little bit more, I'm planning on starting in January using TROS with the Ars Magica system (translating the latin into japanese for their shugenja). I'm going for the PC's underneath their Lord angle, but haven't fleshed out too much of it yet. And I'm pulling very generously from this forum.

Also, is there an appropriate place in the forum to find players? I'm losing quite a few from various things but am very interested in still running the game. The Seneshal with no PCs is a very sad thing. ;)

Charles

[Brian Leybourne]

Charles,

I don't know how far along you are in your planning, but there were a bunch of guys around here who were converting the Ars Magica magic system to TROS a couple of months back; that might be able to save you some work, perhaps.

Do a search in this forum for "Ars Magica" and you'll probably find it. It was quite a long thread.

Brian.

[Ingenious]

My source of reference for all of my data is the World Book Encyclopedia of 1974. Which happens to be 9 years older than I. hahahahahahaha
Oh, and it is possible to have the samurai and the norsemen going at the same time. From my understanding and interpretation of the encyclopedia is that in the 11th century of Japanese history, the Shogun warrior class came into power, which could mean the samurai. I would not know as these are Japanese terminology and I happen to NOT speak a damn word of Japanese. *shrug*
However, I did catch the tail end of a history channel show on Samurai tonight... it was like 3 hours long and I got back home from school too late. Damned final exams. Grrrr.

-Ingenious
:::edited to note that I might have been rudely interrupted by the blaster worm while I attempted to sign in.

[Mechavomit]

There were, in fact, samurai before the advent of the first shogun in 1192. In the Heian court, though, most warrior houses were seen as uncouth bumpkins. When the bakufu was established, the samurai took precedence over the courtiers and nobles that had ruled the Heian courts. Minamoto no Yoritomo created the shogunate to keep the warriors and the government from being unduly influenced by the courtiers.

For this time period, the novel Genpei by Kara Dalkey is an excellent source. It's all about the Genpei wars that ended the Heian period, appropriately. It also includes a lot of mythic elements, including demons and sorcerers and spirits.

And that's my first post, after however many months of quiet lurking. Hope it wasn't too awfully pedantic.

[contracycle]

The samurai do not just pop into being as one whole thing according to some sort of abstract archetype.  The samurai's predecessors appear in the national myth as "hardy lads" or a similar expression.  There are household warriors long before there is all the reitual and ideology that accompanies 'the samurai', and long before the bakufu is in a position to challenge the aristocracy for power.  In the period coinciding with the apogee of the Vikings, most of the stuff we associate with the Samurai have yet to be developed (they are using straight swords and armour of chinese model).

However... with a bit of history rejigging, it might not be too implausible.  In the first instance, a retreat of ice around the pole might make it possible to achieve a north west passage style crossing into the pacific and hence to Japan.  More elaborately, King Cnut lost about this time a kingdom comprising scandinavia, britain, and bits of the continent, by dying and failing to avoid a succession conflict.  So with a bit of historical departure, you could rationalise a strong and centralising viking state standing across the north sea, which would push the viking period out a couple of hundred years and allow such characters to interact with the more developed later samurai.

[Jeda]

I sent Jake a submission about TROS in mythic Greece but I never got a reply.  I still have it somewhere.

[Jake Norwood]

Really? When did you send it? I get a lot, so I may have overlooked it.

Jake

[Jeda]

I ordered OBAM from you to the UK and asked about submissions.  I sent a brief idea about playing in a mythic greece setting which grew out of an Idea for an elemental world.

[Ingenious]

Okay, as a follow-up to this topic I noticed a section on medieval japan, the samurai etc in December's issue of National Geographic.. check it out because there's a nice timeline in it with all of the info you'd need for historical accuracy. I just glaced through the article however... but I'm reasonably sure someone will read it.

-Ingenious

[Sneaky Git]

Okay, as a follow-up to this topic I noticed a section on medieval japan, the samurai etc in December's issue of National Geographic.. check it out because there's a nice timeline in it with all of the info you'd need for historical accuracy. I just glaced through the article however... but I'm reasonably sure someone will read it.

-Ingenious

I read it.  Nice pictures (it is NG, after all).  Pretty good info...if you are looking for a general introduction.  Worth a read if you are new to the topic.

Also, as others have said, samurai were certainly present prior to the decline of the Heian Court.  Oh, and for those who might not have caught it, bakufu = military bureaucracy/government that was dominated by the buke, the warrior class (read: shogun and samurai).

Btw, the movie was not particularly good history...but it was a darn fine movie.  Very beautiful.  And plenty of vibrant SA's to choose from.  And let's hear it for Ken Watanabe (plays Katsumoto - based on Saigo Takamori...a real guy!)

As far as the Riddle of Jade goes...it cannot get here soon enough.  I'm a big fan of L5R and Sengoku and have already converted a long-running campaign over to TRoS.  But, it's kinda patchwork.  It works, though.

Chris