Adobe InDesign 2: Good tutorial sites?

[Andy Kitkowski]

Hey all-

I just ran into a copy of InDesign 2 floating in the office over here, and wanted to use it to make classier character sheets and the like.  I KNOW this tool is all about the design and the layout, but it wasn't very intuitive, and I spent about 10 minutes just frustrating myself.

So I'm heading to the bookstore tonight to pick up a beginner's guide, but I wondered if anyone had their fingers on good tutorial/practice sites, or other InDesign references?

Thanks!

-Andy

[Andy Kitkowski]

After spending about 2 hours wandering around B&N, I settled on Adobe InDesign 2.0 Classroom in a Book by Adobe Press.

1) I'm a visual learner, and this has the most screenshots, step-by-step guides.
2) Unfortunately, it focuses more on implementation on graphics and less on creative uses of text as I was hoping, but it was the ONLY book of its class to be so step-by-step, hand-holding, etc.  As soon as I beef up, I'll turn to other guides.

Just wanted to cap that thread.  Danke!

[Andy Kitkowski]

Well, I went through the first 2 tutorials last week, and that, plus my limited experience with other publishing tools, helped me create a character sheet.  

It's not pretty, but it's efficient:

(warning: I embedded some Japanese fonts in it, so it might not look right on your PC. Requires Acro 5, too):

http://www.z-builder.com/rpg/kyuseisha/kyucharsheet1.pdf

EDIT: A curious thing I noticed: The preview mode, for some reason, looks REALLY crappy :) .  Like, the rounded areas look blocky, etc.  But printing it out looks fine.  Dunno why, I'll have to mess around with the PDF export module in InDesign...

[quozl]

It looks very nice and I even viewed it in Acrobat 4.

[sacrosanct]

It looks pretty good for a first time.  If you can find Illustrater, that is easier then InDesign IMHO.

[Keith Senkowski]

We use InDesign at our office and what we started with for tutorial purposes was the InDesign Visual Quickstart Guide by Peachpit Press.  On a whole we have found their books as excellent starting points for learning all sorts of computer program/programming.

Keith

[Mernya]

I just wanted to chime in that InDesign follows many of the conventions of the other Adobe product lines. If you are familiar with the Photoshop, you can handle InDesign.

The Classroom in a Book series is very good. I've used it before back on an earlier version of Photoshop. Although it was a Gift and Ive been using Photoshop for years, there is always something new to find.

Re: Your character sheet
Fonts: With Acrobat Distiller (the print engine that makes PDFs) you can embed your fonts, if you choose. This is best if layout and design are of high concern because you can maintain the look of your work. Additionally, it is what you should be doing if your PDF goes to press. Downside? Primarily, it can add to your file size.

Rounded Rectangles: It is important that once you have drawn your rounded-edge rectangle that you do -not- resize or stretch it. If you do, the precision of your curves will be skewed out of shape. Thisis especially noticable  on your Attribute & Edges box.

Use Guidelines and Snaps. That will help you keep your boxes where you want them. Most major publications work on a matrix system, where the master document has a bunch of grids put on it to set up your columns and such. That would keep your character/player/Complication boxes lined up.

Otherwise, good show and glad to hear that you've found a tool that you want to use efficiently for the hobby.

[Andy Kitkowski]

Hmmm, one more quick question, then on the Rounded Rectangles: Yeah, they look pretty junky online, but when it is printed out, it looks fine: Perfect, even.  I can understand how the fonts can look pixelated if I don't embed them, but what of the ellipses, curves and the like?  I don't understand how it can look scratchy online but print out perfectly.

Any insight?

Thanks!

[Matt Snyder]

Andy, I've noticed this when creating PDFs as well (using Quark, however).

The "scratchy" look occurs in vector-based art, typically in EPS format. (My best guess is that InDesign is creating something similar, then exporting to PDF.)

Strangely, when I create a bitmap version of a nearly identical image, there is no "scratchiness" on screen. But, the print version sometimes is slightly worse. And, it's almost invariably larger file size.

So, I'm sympathizing, and I don't have an answer for you. Just keep in mind what you're intended use of the publication is: on-screen, printed out, etc. If printed out, use Jedi mind powers: "These aren't the scratches you're looking for. Move along."

[Jack Aidley]

.pdf is a thin variant on what is basically PostScript format. PostScript is, essentially, a form of vector art designed specifically for printing out. As such it has an effectively infinite resolution, and so can look great at higher resolution (print) while scratchy at low resolution (screen) - this can easily be seen by zooming in and out of the .pdf file and watching how different bits look better and worse as you go.

Bitmaps on the other hand have a specific resolution, so can never look any better than they do at their original resolution (probably less than the resolution of your printer) but look good at their designed resolution (which is generally the same as your looking at it at if you did them yourself).

Does that help?

[Mernya]

The "scratchy" look occurs in vector-based art, typically in EPS format. (My best guess is that InDesign is creating something similar, then exporting to PDF.)

Strangely, when I create a bitmap version of a nearly identical image, there is no "scratchiness" on screen. But, the print version sometimes is slightly worse. And, it's almost invariably larger file size.

So, I'm sympathizing, and I don't have an answer for you. Just keep in mind what you're intended use of the publication is: on-screen, printed out, etc. If printed out, use Jedi mind powers: "These aren't the scratches you're looking for. Move along."

As a clarification, PDF is EPS with some bells and whistles which is another form of PS.

Matt is right, it is an issue with how your screen and/or the distilling operation rasterizes the vector artwork. If it does not do enough sampling for anti aliasing, it will appear crappy. Check your compression settings in the distiller app (if you are using it) and make sure Anti-Alias to gray is checked (that usually helps). You may also wish to play with the Compress Text & Line Art setting to see what that does for you. That covers one end of the spectrum. The other end is the display side. Your problem may simply be in your PDF Reader settings.  

Look at this: http://www.creativepro.com/img/story/081203_fg1.pdf, click the link to bring up the properties. Smoothing slows the display, but increases the look.  :)

[Andy Kitkowski]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

-Andy