Wrestling RPG

[Luke de Sade]

Hi, guys. First time poster, not-long time lurker (as a matter of fact, I have lurked like 2 days or something :) ) I am doing a wrestling RPG, with d20 rules. I know some guys have tried this before (Wrestle d20 comes to mind), and while I don't know if they have failed or succeeded, I thought I'd try my hand at it.

I'm messing around with the d20 system, and getting rid of some hassles that I find annoying in it, and introducing new things to it. Classes are out, as are Hit Points. I'm using a Damage Save (which I first saw in the RPG Mutants and Masterminds) to resist damage, instead of the annoying Hit Points.

So, what else am I doing in it? The moves, you gotta buy them with points you'll get at character creation. You have an amount of points with which to buy everything from Abilities, to Feats, to Skills, and Moves... Saves can also be bought, as well as Defense and Base Attack Bonus.

I have the system nearly done, except for combat and the moves, but everything from character creation rules to wrestling feats are done. I have a general idea of how combat will be handled, but I have to write down those rules.

I'll give you some more info tomorrow. I just wanted to know if there's an interest for a wrestling RPG right now, or not.

[Matt Gwinn]

I have one question.  Why d20?
It seems to me that the advantage of d20 is that the system is pretty much written for you.  From what you've given us so far your game seems a lot different from d20.  Buying moves, damage saves, these things seem pretty separate from the basic d20 system.

My recomendation is to design a system that does what you what rather than modifying an existing system.  d20 is likely to get people's attention, but it didn't seem to help the last d20 wrestling game that came out.

WHat do you want your game to do?  Just combat? Do you want special rules for cutting promos and lockerroom skits and interviews?

If you're intent on using d20, I think getting rid of classes might be the wrong way to go.  You could have a luchador class, power wrestler class, technical wrestler class, etc.  Instead of a skill list you could have a move list and each class would have its own move list (like class skills in D&D).  Then you can add finishers as feats.  You can also have feats that give you bonuses in tag matches, cage matches etc.

Looking forward to hearing more.

,Matt Gwinn

[hardcoremoose]

Matt's being humble.  If you haven't heard of Kayfabe already, you should follow the link in his sig and behold the dissertation on wrestling in an rpg format.  If you have heard of Kayfabe, then you know what the fuss is about.

Not that I would recommend copying Kayfabe, or that I'm trying to deter you from doing your own game your own way.  But the wealth of information is vast, and the design tight.

- Scott

[Luke de Sade]

Yeah, I've heard of Kayfabe. Haven't played it, but I've heard pretty good reviews about the game.

The reason I decided to go for d20 is that the system is already written, and it's pretty popular. Yes, I could design a system for the game, but that would be too much work, and I have most of the rules written already for d20, so I would have to start from scratch again.

Why did I got rid of classes? Because I want people to create their own wrestler, choosing the moves they want. I do have Feats that give bonuses to certain types of wrestling. For example, there's a Feat called Submission Expert that gives your opponent a -2 penalty to resist your Submission moves; High Flyer gives you +2 to High-Flying attacks; Shooter gives you +2 to damage with punch, kick, elbow, headbutt, knee, etc... you get the point.

And yes, you can cut promos in the ring, and do stuff backstage. That should be the meat of the game.

[Luke de Sade]

Oh, by the way, I heard that Wrestle d20 bombed. Do you guys know what made it bomb? Did they change anything in the d20 system or did they use the system unchanged?

[Jack Aidley]

I'd imagine it bombed because a simple wrestling RPG in which you have fights' would (in my opinion, at least) suck. In particular one based around the combat system of d20 would suck.

I used to watch wrestling a bit. And it was really quite engaging, but it was engaging because of the soap-opera story lines as much as the fight scenes. Ultimately wrestling is rigged, and any successful RPG based on wrestling needs to capture that, and needs to produce the same kind of fights as you get in wrestling. I.e. one guy wins for a bit, the other guy wins for a bit, the hero looks like he's going to get beat - then some guy runs in with a chair, until finally someone wins.

It seems to me that d20 is not suited to producing this kind of game.

[Luke de Sade]

The game I'm designing has backstage antics, and interviews are a big part of it. There are also run-ins, where you can interfere with a match in progress and affect the outcome of the match.

[Jack Aidley]

Sounds interesting; how will you have these things work?

[Luke de Sade]

Anytime you're not in a match, you can walk around the back and meet wrestlers, managers, valets, and the like. This way you have your backstage skits. The players and the General Manager (or GM) will create the stories themselves.

Interfering in a match, you just consult with your GM about it, and if it's good for the storyline, you can interfere.

Check out this thread, I have more stuff about the game there:

http://www.mutantsandmasterminds.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2328

[Todd Bogenrief]

I am curious on how you plan on converting/using d20's combat system.  Do you still plan on using the 5 foot squares and tactical miniatures style of play?  

While I can't see it working for a "cinematic" wrestling game, I can see how the d20 tactical combat system could be worked into a decent semblance of a wrestling match using a combination of skills and feats.

A few nice layouts of rings and some gimmick rings (cage and the like) and backstage area's could make for an interesting game, combat wise.

[Matt Gwinn]

ONe of the biggest criticisms the WWF roleplaying game received was that matches took way too long.  From my experiences with D20 I'd have to say the problem might carry over into your game.  One combat in D&D can take an hour or more.  Seeing that wrestling can be just as tactical as combat you may want to think of something that can pick up the pace a bit.

Oh, by the way, I heard that Wrestle d20 bombed. Do you guys know what made it bomb? Did they change anything in the d20 system or did they use the system unchanged?

Part of the problem was that they were releasing the game via 5 separate books. Another problem, that has effected Kayfabe aswell, is that there are literally thousands of E-feds out there that are free.  I think the only thing that keeps Kayfabe selling is that it recognizes wrestling as being fake and no e-fed does that.

,Matt

[Spooky Fanboy]

One thing that might work for your game would be a system similar to Sorcerer where successes from one part of the game transfer over to other portions. Thus, a successful interview (mostly RPed of course) would give a pool of successes during the ring combat, and those successes could bounce over to the scriptwriting system for the next drama, and so on. Of course, failures also travel...

Just a thought.

[Luke de Sade]

Spooky, I actually thought of that. For example, if your wrestler gives a good interview against another wrestler, like, let's say, hyping the Pay-Per-View event, and he earns some Heat Points (which you can use to do certain stuff in the matches), he carries those Heat Points into his PPV match against that other wrestler.

But let's say the character just comes out to talk some smack about how great he is, and he gets some Heat Points for that interview, he can use those Heat Points in his next match (apart from gaining Heat Points on his own during the match).

Now, let's say that during that interview, your wrestler (let's call him Mr. Wonderful... not Paul Orndorff, though) talks about another wrestler (let's call him The Butcher), and then, The Butcher comes out to the ring and proceeds to clean the house with Mr. Wonderful... all the Heat Points you made during your interview are handed over to The Butcher for his next match against you.

It's something like that. I still don't have the whole system down, but that's the general idea.

[Luke de Sade]

I'm stuck in one part of the game and I need to see if someone can help me out of it. I don't know how to do the wrestling moves mechanic. What I had originally thought of was something like this:

You buy a move in ranks, and each rank has a cumulative damage. For example, a Suplex has +2 damage per rank, and you add your Str Bonus. So a rank 3 suplex for a Str 14 character would do a total damage of 8. You add a DC Bonus of +10, so the DC to resist the move is 18.

The thing is that, well, there are a lot of moves, and with this mechanic, you'd end up buying moves that, although they are different in FX, they do the same damage. Like, for example, a Power Slam rank 3 would do the same damage as the Suplex rank 3.

See where I'm at? So, what can I do here?

[Matt Gwinn]

How about using move categories instead of each move being a skill?  You can have:

Basic Moves (ie. clothesline etc.)
Top rope moves (ie. 450 splash etc.)
Middle rope moves  (ie. same as top rope but less damaging)
Submission Moves (ie. crossface)
Lifting Moves (ie. suplex, etc.)
Jumping Moves (ie. drop kick, etc.)
Hardcore Moves (ie. chairshots, etc.)

For each rank you have you can pick out a move that you know from that category.  You start by picking the moves with the lowest damage value.  Thus you would need to have all the damage 1 moves in a category before you can choose the damage 2 moves.

Some moves might have prereqs.  For example: A shooting star press would be considered a Top Rope Move, but might require that the character also have the Acrobatic feat.  A move like a Gorilla Press SLam might require a character to have a certain STR attribute.

Some moves should require your opponent to be stunned to use effectively, while others can be resisted with strength, etc.

You should also have defensive skills aswell that would allow you to do reversals or counters.

Just some thoughts.

,Matt[/code]