Printing quote

[Matt Snyder]

I received a quote from a printing company to print 200 copies of Nine Worlds in a format very much similar to My Life WIth Master.

The bids may still come along. One I received was from Express Media, and the bid was $2.83 per copy. Can anyone share what they think of this bid, please? I'm trying to get everything in shape for spring printing, then Summer con release, dead-tree style, for Nine Worlds.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Matt,

I'm not sure about the length and format of the book, which will obviously be important factors, but that's not a bad quote at all if you're talking about a color cover.

Certainly check with other companies, but I'd consider that fairly competitive (business jargon: "good," "reasonable").

Best,
Ron

[Matt Snyder]

I thought it was a pretty decent quote, too, Ron. But, I couldn't recall any comparisons, especially those from people who've posted here previously.

 The book would indeed have a coated, 4-color cover. It will either be saddle-stitched or perfect bound depending on the final length of the book.

[Paul Czege]

You might think that because it's mostly black and white artwork that My Life with Master does not have a color cover, but it does. It is not a two color cover like, for instance, It Came From the Late, Late, Late Show, or the blue dragon version of the Dungeons & Dragons book from 1979. For artistic reasons, I chose to have the cover be only black and orange, but it was printed the same as it would have been if it was full color artwork. So in fact I did not actually realize any cost savings by doing the cover in black and orange.

My costs and the details of my request for bids can be found on http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7323">this thread. Matt, I have to assume you estimated 120 pages or so when you requested your bid, or asked for cover lamination rather than just coated paper stock?

Paul

[Matt Snyder]

Excellent, Paul, thanks for the info. I tried to find that thread, which I recall reading with interest. This is helpful.

I do need to verify the lamination, but the page count should be about right.

[Mike Holmes]

Sounds good to me. I assume that you're not doing bleeds anywhere? I thought maybe some of your graphics had bled from the copy that I saw. If they're doing bleeds then that's a miraculous price.

Mike

[Chris Passeno]

Matt,
Could you post the spec's?
Finished Size:
Interior #'d Pages:
Interior Colors [I assume it's black ink only]
Interior Stock:
Cover Colors [I assume it's 4c]
Cover Stock:
Binding & Finishing:

[Matt Snyder]

Sure thing, Chris.

Finished size is 7" x 8.5"
Interior colors are black only
Interior page stock is 60#
Cover is 4 color, C1S (Coated One Side, I believe)
Cover stock is 12
Binding remains undecided between saddle-stitched and perfect bound, depending on page count. I estimated finished page count at 80 pages plus cover/back.

They quoted me the price aware that the binding remained undecided. I did not request lamination. (This would be a veneer in addition to the "coated" cover, correct?) Obviously, requesting such a change would change the quote.

[Luke]

You really don't want your covers laminated, that'll make'em plasticky and stiff.

There are a few ways to give a cover shine, must of them reserved for traditional press work.

First, just print on coated stock (which you seem to be doing). This will give it gloss feel. (you can do this on a laser printer or a press.)

Second, the "gloss coat" that most printers give to covers is called varnish (if I am not mistaken). Ask for a glossy cover and they do this automatically. If you're really savvy you can do "spot" varnishes where just one element is really shiny and everything else is "flat". (like the Arcana Unearthed book)

Third, if you use a modern printer with a 5/6 plate press, you can usually get an aquaeous coat. It's not as shiny as varnish, but it also doesn't yellow over time and is much cheaper (because it's a separate built-in unit, not one of the plates).

You should ask your printer if they are going to use varnish gloss or aquaeous. If they know what you are talking about, you're on the right track.

You can also get Matte and Satin aquaeous coats -- Matte is a "dull" finish and satin is really neat, shiny and smooth. You see it on magazine ads or postcards with that really slick, slippery finish. (you can also get matte varnish, but it also yellows and is more expensive).

Paper stock also largely determines cover quality. If you printed on coated, then you are going to have a bit of a shine to start. If you add a gloss coat to that you get a real nice shine. Most books are done like that.

If you use an uncoated paper stock, then you start with no shine. And when you add matte or gloss to it you get some really interesting effects.

Personally, I'm a fan of matte coats -- they give a "different" feel and appear more durable (because there is no shine to dull). However, matte coats ain't shiny, and shininess sells games.

hope that helps.
-Luke

[Chris Passeno]

Alternative Quote:
I logged onto Berryville Graphics website http://www.opm.com/QuoteForm.asp and plugged in some numbers.  They don't do the 7x8.5, but I feel that you are gonna pay more no matter where you go for that non-standard size.

I plugged in 200 books (6.125x9.25) 80 pages, 4c cover on a 10pt. C1S, no cover  lamination, 50# insides in black ink only and perfect bound.  I got a cost of $1.83 per book.

If you added cover lamination it would be: $2.19 per book.

With out lamination but page size at 8.25x10.75: $2.10 per book.

With lamination and larger size: $2.40 per book.

If you contact them they can give you the adjustments for a 12pt. and 60#.

-Chris

[Matt Snyder]

Wow, that's great. Thanks a million, Chris. I'll definitely check this out.

[coolblade]

I'm paying around 1.03 per book for a 4 color coated soft cover with 56 pages black and white and perfect binding although I'm working with much higher quantites. Hope that helps.