Dwarfs, Dwarves and small people!

[bergh]

HEHE, i don't acutally know if this is the right place to write this, but i need info from different systems/RPG world.
More precise on Dwarfs! I need the Maximum age, weight and height standards from these RPG systems.

Warhammer fantasy roleplay
Lord of the Rings RPG
D&D

Hope you will help me!

[Bankuei]

Hi bergh,

Might I ask how this really helps your game design?  I mean, we're asking about a listing of stats that folks have completely made up.  It would probably be more helpful for you to figure out exactly what your game goals are, how dwarves fit into that, and what kind of details the players need to know in order to play the game.  Otherwise, it's just detail for details sake.

Chris

[bergh]

Hi

Ive already got bashed by the guy having this forum.

but i can say that i wanna do myown campaign world, and i just was woundering what other "worlds" was thinking.

But please ignore this thread if I've done something wrong

[Bankuei]

Hi Bergh,

I wasn't trying to bash you, if I came across a bit harsh, I apologize.  Instead, I was asking for a bit more focus about what role Dwarves play in your game, and what role having exact stats means?   Thinking this way will save you both time and effort, whereas worrying about how other people statted Dwarves may be completely useless for your game.

Chris

[Doctor Xero]

I don't know if this helps, but in most folklore, dwarves are half the height of the average female for that society.  In some tales, they are the same length as the average female but so bent and doubled-up that they are reduced in height.

Most folktales in which adult heroes encounter dwarves simply describe them as small; I only recall stories in which adult heroines encounter dwarves giving any proportionate height, and it is almost always half the heroine's height.  This is usually considered the same height as the average child, so it enables the dwarves to function sometimes as metaphors for evil offspring for adult heroes and heroines in the same way that giants function sometimes as metaphors for evil fathers.  It also allows dwarves to interact eye-to-eye with children when they are childknappers or corrupters of the young.

Doctor Xero

[Ron Edwards]

Hiya,

Actually, it would be kind of neat to list out the Dwarf information of this type here in this thread, from a variety of games. Basic descriptive comparison - not a bad method for a theory thread to see whether interesting questions emerge.

I'm not next to my game library right now and my time is limited, so can some other people start off? Just name the game and list the information that was requested.

Best,
Ron

[anonymouse]

D&D3E: Maximum age is (250 + 2d%) something around 500 years old. Height tops out at 4'5", and weight at 226lbs.

Shadowrun 2E: no maximums are given, but average is 1.2 meters tall and 54 kilograms.

I don't have the other two on your list, so someone else'll have to pipe up on those.

[Thuringwaethiel]

If someone cares: Dwarves of Middle-Earth RPG (old version, and translated, too)

Lifespan 200 to 400 years
Height 4' to 5'
Weight not given, but the "half-dwarves" are same height and their males average 150 lbs, females 130 lbs.
Other: these dwarves do not have IR vision, but see in dark anyways; in poor light 20 yards without penalty, 40 yards with some difficulties, and even 3 yards in total (natural) darkness. High bonus against both cold and heat attacks, heavy penalty to swimming.

[Simon W]

Lord of the Rings RPG (Decipher)

Age tops out at around 300, but 240 seems more the norm.
Height of about 5' is tops.
Weight - dunno, can't find any reference to it

Simon

[M. J. Young]

O.K., Data.

The OAD&D DMG gives these numbers for Dwarf (D), Mountain Dwarf (M) and, for reference' sake, Human (H):
Young adult 35-50 D, 40-60 M, 14-20 H
Mature 51-150 D, 61-175 M, 21-40 H
Middle aged 151-250 D, 176-275 M, 41-60 H
Old 251-350 D, 276-400 M, 61-90 H
Venerable 351-450 D, 401-525 M, 91-120 H

Dates of death could be higher than the venerable top number by 199 years for dwarfs (i.e., 649 D or 724 M) and as much as 19 years for humans (139).

Dwarf males range from 44 to 54 inches and from 134 to 174 pounds; females from 42 to 50 inches, 104 to 140 pounds. For comparison, human males range 60 to 84 inches, 139 to 235 pounds, females 60 to 74 inches, 100 to 178 pounds. Height and weight are not linked in the rolling scheme.

Information might be different in 1) other versions of D&D; 2) subsequent OAD&D books; or 3) OAD&D monster description listings of dwarfs, but this is the most detailed source for them. (For example, mountain dwarfs are said to be larger than standard dwarfs, but although the DMG gives different age numbers for these two groups, it doesn't give different heights or weights; mountain dwarfs were not a player character race at the time the DMG was published, but were detailed elsewhere later.)

--M. J. Young

--M. J. Young

[Ron Edwards]

Maybe it's just the profession speaking, but I love comparative data like this. What I'm seeing so far - and maybe we should expand it out to include any and all dwarves in RPGs, before I make any real conclusions, is a whole lot of similarity.

I'll betcha that dwarves, across RPGs, are way more homogenous for these variables than elves. I mean, a lot more.

Anyone else think that's interesting? I say we check it out.

Best,
Ron

[coxcomb]

I'll betcha that dwarves, across RPGs, are way more homogenous for these variables than elves. I mean, a lot more.

Anyone else think that's interesting? I say we check it out.

That is interesting. It seems like gamers have a pretty standard vision of a Dwarf, but every GM has his own version of elves that is somehow tailored to his preferences.

Anyway here's my contribution:

In GURPS Fantasy first edition ((c)1986)

Height: 1 1/2 feet shorter than a human of equivalent Strength
Weight: 100 lbs. heavier than a human of the same height
Age: Don't begin to age until 200, then they age normally. This is slightly ambiguous in the rules, but I think they are trying to say that 300 is the pretty much the top end.

In Fantasy Hero
In the first edition ((c)1985), Dwarves are said to average between 4 and five feet in height. As for age, it just says that their prime of life can stretch out "hundreds of years".
The third edition ((c)2003), also says 4 - 5 feet tall, and says that their weight is equivalent to that of a similarly sized human. This version is clearer about age--up to 400 years.

[talysman]

here are my obscure contributions:

Fantasy Wargaming (1982) sets the height of dwarfs as 2/3 human size in their early Teutonic heyday, but shrinking to only a few inches in height by the High Middle Ages. FW tries to look at the myths/fairy tales of dwarfs in a historical manner, but lists them as distinct from elves, trolls, and trows, when in early Norse myth, these things were all the same thing.

The Fantasy Trip states that dwarves (with the Tolkienesque spelling) average less than five feet in height. no weight is given, although I remember the GM Codex listing weights; I don't have it handy, however.

[Christopher Weeks]

Ayslish Dwarves from TORG are "generally about 1.5 meters high, stockily built, with powerful upper bodies...[and] start adventuring at the age of 75, and can live well past 500."

In Burning Wheel Dwarves appear to be able to start between age 20 and 600.  And under the Common Dwarven Trait Stout, it says that "Dwarves are smaller than Men in stature, but they tend to be a bit thicker around the middle, with broader hands, feet and arms."  

Chris

[Ian Charvill]

WFRP - Height M 4'4" + d10 F 4'2" + d10 (avgs 4'9.5"/4'7.5")
         - Age max listed for PC = 195
         - weight - not listed - other system considerations would suggest slightly higher than the human average

This is pretty much the limit of the fantasy games on my shelf - Anaxial's Roster doesn't list those kind of stats for Mostali.