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Hi all,

This thread's name is courtesy of the excellent Mike Holmes. It is all set for the next round of the "Under the Hood" series starring me, Jesse, Paul, and Tor. Comments and observations are of course appreciated from everyone.

Best,
Ron

Quick Question:

These Characters that we're building.  Are we just working with ideas at this point.  Just the Sorcerer part or both the Sorcerer AND the Demon?  Or is this the full stats, price, kicker and the works?

Jesse

Jesse,

Whatever. If you want to chat first, do that; if the numbers and specifications are just leapin' to mind, do that instead. Whatever works. Either way, we're still in discussion stage.

Character AND demon, of course, whether sketchy or not.

Best,
Ron

Okay, here goes my attempt at a character.  I went with the full write up.  I noted several places that I thought were weak or could use work but of course the whole thing is open to critique.  I look forward to your comments.

Jesse

Sorcerer: Cyril Forrester
Stamina 2 Natural Vigor
Will 4 Manipulative
Lore 4 Solitary Adept
Humanity 4 (I have not made any of the requisite rolls for binding Blob)
Cover 2 Gambler
Price: Jumpy (-1 to social interaction rolls)
Telltale: Whenever Cyril smokes every puff of smoke forms an open palmed hand above his head.
The Story: Cyril loves to gamble.  He loves the thrill of risking it all and raking in the winnings.  There's only one problem.  He isn't very good at it.  Cyril was down to his last dollar and was about to end it all by leaping from a bridge when a stranger pulled him back at the last moment.  The stranger surprisingly called Cyril by name and said that he knew how to end all of Cyril's problems.  The stranger was of course a Sorcerer and he taught Cyril everything he knew.  Cyril's first (and current) Demon is Blob an inconspicuous demon that masquerades as Cyril's shadow.  Blob uses his various powers to impove Cyril's gaming skills and the two have been rolling in dough ever since.  Eventually Cyril and the stranger parted ways.  He hasn't seen the stranger in over three years.

Other Stuff (This is the stuff that would go in the box on the back of the character sheet:

Lore: The Stranger.  This was the Sorcerer Cyril apprenticed under.  He saved Cyril's life and taught him how to use Socerery to turn his life around.  He's very sketchy at this point and doesn't even have a name.  So input is welcome.

Price: Cyril has a girlfriend named Jenny.  Jenny works as a waitress at the club Cyril visits most frequently.  He loves her very much but unfortunately he can never settle down enough to truly be comfortable with her.  She is growing increasily anoyed at his paranoid behavior but is holding out in hopes that whatever is bothering him will pass.  She probably suspects that he's on the run from something in his past.

The Kicker: During his nightly round of poker at his favorite club Cyril was spotted by another Sorcerer, he himself had failed to noticed.  Cyril has never seen this man before.  But instead of exposing Cyril and accusing him of cheating the man simply folded his cards and excused himself from the table.  As he left he leaned over and whispered, "I never forget," to Cyril.

(I personally think this Kicker is kind of weak, so feel free to offer advice).

Demon: Blob
Type: Inconspicuous (He's Cyril's Shadow)
Telltale: Although Blob appears to be Cyril's shadow, Blob has about a quarter inch of thinkness.
Abilities: Boost(Cover), Confuse, Hint, Perception, Shadow
Stamina 3
Will 6
Lore: 5
Power 6
Desire: Mischief
Need: Blob needs to collect people's deepest, darkest secrets.
The Story: Blob follows Cyril wherever he goes like a loyal puppy.  However, Blob is FAR from a cute cuddly little pet.  Normally, Blob uses his Boost and Percpetion abilities to improve Cyril's gambling skills.  Blob also sometimes uses his Confuse ability to cloud the minds of Cyril's fellow players. (Note: Hint and Shadow are added because they enhance the nature of Blob as well as go with the style of the game itself).  Blob has a need to learn people's secrets.  However, Blob, although capable (unbeknowst to Cyril), does not leave Cyril's side so Cyril must somehow trick people into revealing their secrets to him.  And on occasion Blob has even convinced Cyril to use one person's secrets as leverage to learn someone else's secret.  It is clear that this has led to some pretty awkward situations.

Okay...this is my request from Forge regulars for character suggestions. I can't seem to get materialist out of my head, and I don't want a character who's a materialist. My brother is a materialist. My character, Steffan Solmama, for Scott's Sorcerer game was a powermonger, self-absorbed, with a callous disregard for others. Sorcerer is about humanity. There are two satisfying narratives for a materialist or powermonger in my mind; he either redeems himself, or he gets his comeuppance. I'm not really interested in either of those narratives for this game.

Josh's idea for a lower-middle-class kid who busted his way into the big leagues with sorcery is pretty good.

But I'd really prefer a character who thinks he's doing good, advancing science or theology or xenobiology or entomology or something, without cognizance of the sheer malevolence and immanent evil of the forces he's involved with.

Doesn't fit with the game? Any thoughts?

Paul

Paul,

Boy, you are just a worry wart!

It fits fine with the game. All you need is to include an important person who the character really cares about, and/or demon, who has different money, fame, and success values from the character's.

It's not supposed to be hard. There is no pressure.

Best,
Ron

Hello Paul,

Well given that Ron has stated the Premise as being about Material Wealth, it's a little hard to get away from the Materialist.  However, what about someone who indirectly supports Materilists in some fashion.  Someone who thinks he's bringing about some great benefit to society when in reality all he's doing is increasing the divide between the haves and have nots.

What leaps to mind is an engineer who thinks he's building great inventions to make work easier and increasing productivity, when in fact his inventions are putting people of of work and just increasing the wallets of the industrialists.  What do you think of that?

Jesse

Paul--

How about the noir "young priest" character? He's just out of the seminary, where he learned a few unorthodox bits of lore, along with the regular stuff. Now he's back in New York (where he grew up, but in a sheltered home), trying to do good. He's not materialistic in the traditional sense, nor is particularly manipulative. But he's not above tempation either, & part of the reason he wants to help is not for selfless reasons but to be recognized as a "good & helpful person". Which leads him to stick his nose where it doesn't belong, in an effort to be a recognized good samaritan. He also has to deal with the messiness of sorcery, which conflicts with his otherwise "good" nature.

Just an idea.

I like Jesse's engineer idea, too. Vaguely Fountainhead. (Hell, make him an architect.)

Or how about an artist, who's not after material wealth (at least, not consciously) but pushing the artistic envelope. Sorcery, to him, is just another form of art, albeit a messy one--imagine Jackson Pollack as an "action sorcerer".

[ This Message was edited by: joshua neff on 2001-10-18 14:58 ]

Couple more points ...

1) Nothing about sorcery necessarily includes atrocity. Demons are dangerous, but sorcerers do not have to be perverts and murderers.

2) The Premise as I've stated it does NOT require a character to be especially materialist, or at all! The very same Premise may be investigated via a character who challenges material gain in every way.

Don't see shackles where there are none ...

Best,
Ron

Just a short bit right now, more later: I like the angle that you're taking, Jesse.  Low-life elements, living a fast-paced life-style.  But what if we kicked it up a notch?  I was thinking characters who are a little bit more driven, who can feel the flames at their back, and they know if they stop to rest it's all over. Right now Cybil sounds like a drifter, sort of letting the winds of life blow him around.I mean, why is he destroying his life by gambling?

The character I'm thinking of for myself is young, ambitious, flashy and callow.  The flames at *his* back are the poverty that he emerged from and the spectres of his dead parents who refuse to let him rest or settle down (maybe a younger brother or sister kickin around somewhere).  The route he's gone is that of the high-paced hustler: maybe a lifted crate of booze here, maybe a little B&E there, maybe a dash of strong-arm work.  Of course, sorcery has given him the ability to raise the stakes and get away with it.

-Tor

Jesse,

So far so good, with the following bits o'feedback.

- I'd like to see more in the Kicker (or the immediate response to it) that illuminates Cyril's person a bit more. In most good movies, the character does something in the first few minutes that lets you know "this guy is OK," or "this guy has a good side," or something like that.

- That sorcerer mentor is way weak, man. Showed up, taught him sorcery, then vanished? Whoa Nelly. How 'bout altering that structure into steps which resulted from SPECIFIC actions on Cyril's part? Not to get too detailed - but again, add some proactivity on the character's part, just enough so I (or you) go "uh-HUH" when we see it.

Best,
Ron

Tor,

So far so good for you too. I like it. Again, remember that we're dealing with a protagonist here, so be careful not simply to make up a good second-tier bad guy. (That is a very common problem in Sorcerer character creation, which is why that business about being a worthwhile protagonist is in the rules.)

Best,
Ron

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On 2001-10-18 17:39, Ron Edwards wrote:
- That sorcerer mentor is way weak, man. Showed up, taught him sorcery, then vanished? Whoa Nelly. How 'bout altering that structure into steps which resulted from SPECIFIC actions on Cyril's part? Not to get too detailed - but again, add some proactivity on the character's part, just enough so I (or you) go "uh-HUH" when we see it.

Well, what do we know about Cyril (BTW, big award for a most Melodramatically Art-deco name) and his relation to his mentor? Well, he came along just a Cyril was going to off himself. Coincidence? I think not! Sounds like this Mentor was just waiting for a low point in Cyril's life, a point where he could step in and mold Cyril into whatever he wanted. And then he disappeared? Why go through all this trouble and then disappear? Isn't it just possible that Cyril's mentor is just waiting in the shadows, waiting for just the right moment to burst back forth onto the scene and unleash the awful destiny that he's had planned for Cyril all along!

Or maybe he's just become an insurance salesman and settled down with a family. You decide, Jesse. :wink:

Mike

Quote
On 2001-10-18 14:41, Paul Czege wrote:
But I'd really prefer a character who thinks he's doing good, advancing science or theology or xenobiology or entomology or something, without cognizance of the sheer malevolence and immanent evil of the forces he's involved with.

Steal Josh's Jackson Pollock idea. The character makes great art. But the people who want to buy it don't understand it. OTOH, they're loaded, and willing to part with stacks of cash.

And just what effect do his paintings have on people. The angles of the lines seem... to....

Mike

Could a demon Possess a painting? Or maybe the painting is just an Object demon...?