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In GNS Model Discussion

12/17/2001 Ian O'Rourke: Where is the innovation in System?
Okay, Ron’s article on FLN got me thinking about narrativist games in particular. I find some of them great, and others I just find myself wondering how they can be…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ian O'Rourke, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, James V. West.

12/14/2001 Gordon C. Landis: The Importance of Being External
So I found myself arguing for the legitimacy of "internal" Gamist measurement of performance in the "Gamism: The pursuit of excellence" thread. I added a few words about how there…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards.

12/12/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Gamism in action
On another thread, Mark Blaxland wrote: This seems to me to infer that 'Gamist' games are all about winning. ... It's only natural, after all to want to 'win'.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Ron Edwards.

12/12/2001 Mark Blaxland: Gamism: The pursuit of excellence
This post, and my presence on this forum is largely a result of Mads Jakobsen's 'Gamism is not competition' thread, and it's spill-over to RPG.net (where I heard about it).…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mark Blaxland, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Marco, Mike Holmes, Clinton R. Nixon, contracycle, jburneko.

12/7/2001 jburneko: GNS The Big Picture
Hello All, I wanted to address some of Fangs comments he made down in the "Name That Style" thread. The things he said reminded me of something I think WE…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur.

12/7/2001 Gordon C. Landis: "Should I apply GNS?" Decision tree
Inpired by the Mads Jakobsen Gamism thread, the "What Style" thread, and the RPG.net . . . thing. 1-Are you having a problem with your RPG play/design? If NO, do…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis.

12/5/2001 jburneko: Name That Style
Hello All, There's a style of role-playing that I've found to be far more common among gamers than I originally thought. Personally, I'm having trouble understanding it mainly because I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Bret, lumpley, hardcoremoose, Clinton R. Nixon, James Holloway, Paul Czege.

12/5/2001 Balbinus: Statting, NPCs and GNS
Hi all, a brief exchange between Mike Holmes and JBurneko got me thinking about this. Basically, the pre-assigning or calculation of stats for NPCs, is it related to GNS? Mike…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Balbinus, Marco, mahoux, jburneko, Ian O'Rourke, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Epoch, Ben Morgan, Bankuei, lumpley, Laurel, Blake Hutchins, Le Joueur, Joe Murphy (Broin).

12/5/2001 Bret: Question from a Clueless Newbie
Okay, all of this stuff is over my head. I've read the theory, read through some of the discussions, and my big question is: What is the usefulness of this?…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Bret, Ron Edwards, Zak Arntson, Epoch, Joe Murphy (Broin), jburneko, Balbinus, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege, Laurel, hardcoremoose.

11/29/2001 Paul Czege: The "general" system I've never seen
Hey Ron, In Chapter 5 of your "GNS and Other Matters..." essay, you describe a "general" system as holding "constant one or two of the listed elements of role-playing (Character,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Mike Holmes, Joe Murphy (Broin), Demonspahn, Bret.

11/27/2001 Mads Jakobsen: Gamism is not competition.
I know it’s been discussed a thousand times, but I must say it… Gamism is not competition. Most games are competitions (chess, football, warhammer). But a few is not (solitaire,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mads Jakobsen, Gordon C. Landis, contracycle, Ron Edwards, Marco, Matt, greyorm, Paul Czege, jburneko, Tor Erickson, Clinton R. Nixon.

11/12/2001 John Wick: C/L/S: A Bit of Good-Hearted Satire
I have a theory. I call it "The Sitting Theory." As far as I can see, everything you can sit on falls into one of three categories: Chairs, Loveseats and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Marco, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, Jack Spencer Jr, Blake Hutchins, 333Chronzon, Mytholder, unodiablo, Laurel, Le Joueur.

11/2/2001 Matt Snyder: This thing called GNS
I've spent many hours slogging through Internet threads and posts. All in attempt, I suppose, to improve my understanding of my favorite past time, role-playing. As a player, GM, and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Snyder, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Mike Holmes, 333Chronzon.

10/31/2001 jburneko: Vanilla Narrativism vs. Simulationism
Hello All, Given the discussion down in the Bobby G thread and the Vanillia Narrativism thread there seems to be some confusion over what exactly the differences are between Vanilla…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Marco, Mike Holmes.

10/29/2001 Ron Edwards: Vanilla Narrativism
Hello, Before diving back into the wilds of the Gamism debate, I wanted to address something that's been itching at me for a few weeks. A lot of people seem…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, joshua neff, Mike Holmes, Marco, 333Chronzon.

10/25/2001 unheilig: Primeval. A G/N/S hybrid?
Anybody whose played Primeval knows it is a VERY narrative style of play. No stats, no skills, no rounds, no initiative. You tell the story of how your character overcomes…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: unheilig, hardcoremoose, Mytholder, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Ian O'Rourke, unodiablo.

10/24/2001 Daredevil: Simulationism and Narrativism Under the Same Roof
I'll give a bit of a background about my concerns, so you can see where I'm coming from. I'm currently designing a couple of different games, trying hard to advance…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege, Valamir, Marco, Laurel.

10/22/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: Gamism and Premise
contracycle (Gareth, I believe?) and I have been having a pretty spirited discussion in the "New essay by Ron" thread about where Premise comes from in Gamist RPGs. Here's a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, jburneko, Mike Holmes, Bankuei, Don Lag, Matt, contracycle, Marco, Ron Edwards, joshua neff, Valamir, kwill.

10/19/2001 jburneko: Is GNS Good For GMs?
Hello All, Over the last few days TrzzlWzzl (sp?) has been expressing his distaste for the GNS model as it pertains to System Design and GMs. What you are seeing…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Laurel, Ron Edwards, joshua neff, TrizzlWizzl, Marco.

10/18/2001 Manu: The 4 steps of action (for Ron)
Hey again, you mention these four steps in any action: Intention, Initiation, Completion and Effect; could you again provide some examples of what you were thinking about? Thank you -…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Ron Edwards, Laurel, Le Joueur.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

12/27/2001 Daredevil: El Dorado
This thread is a continuation of two threads I started previously: "Narrativism and Simulationism Under the Same Roof" and "Narrativism and Bobby G". Thinking about the responses, I've been able…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, unodiablo, Ryan Ary, joshua neff, Paul Czege, Jeffrey Straszheim, contracycle.

12/27/2001 Skippy: A Connecticut Narrativist in King Arthur's Simulation
Okay, that's a really bad thread title. However, I would like some input, if you all please. I have spent most of the day reviewing GNS threads, trying to bring…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Skippy, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Joe Murphy (Broin), joshua neff, Paul Czege, hardcoremoose, Ryan Ary, contracycle.

12/31/2001 Knight: A systems discussion: the sword and the axe
One thing I'm not really comfortable with about the GNS model is it's application to game systems. So, this is an example of how three hypothetical systems of a medieval…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Knight, lumpley, Ron Edwards, Logan, Marco, Mike Holmes, Paul Czege.

1/7/2002 efindel: A Simulationist Thinks About Narrativism
Reading the recent threads about Simulationism and Narrativism, and also reading over my copies of Sorcerer and Sorcerer and Sword that I just got last week, it seems to me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: efindel, Tim C Koppang, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, jburneko, Marco, contracycle, Daredevil, Mike Holmes.

1/9/2002 Matt Gwinn: Metamorphoses of a Gamer
This may not be the right place for this, but I didn't know where else to post it. I had a conversation with Moose recently about why I haven't been…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Gwinn, Ron Edwards, efindel, joshua neff, Bankuei, Logan, hardcoremoose, Skippy.

1/15/2002 Paganini: Narrativism
This came up in another thread (the one about player vs. GM power), but I thought it deserved it's own topic. Also, it's more appropriate for here, than for the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Marco, jburneko, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Epoch, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Gordon C. Landis, hardcoremoose.

1/16/2002 Paganini: Identity Crisis
Ron mentioned elsewhere that The Window has a GNS identity crisis. As The Window was my first introduction to story centric gaming, it's still one of my "fan" systems, even…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Joe Murphy (Broin), Ron Edwards, Marco, contracycle, AndyGuest, Logan.

1/17/2002 Gordon C. Landis: Design theory vs. play desires
Seemed like I should split this out of the Narrativism thread if I wanted to comment on it - and I do . . . So I think so…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards, Laurel, Marco, Paganini, Le Joueur.

1/17/2002 Logan: Replacing
..
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Jared A. Sorensen, Ron Edwards, Paganini, Clinton R. Nixon, Mike Holmes, jburneko, Laurel, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, Mytholder, contracycle, A.Neill, Marco, Le Joueur.

1/18/2002 Laurel: Its All About Intent
This is a break off of the big Narrativism thread, because I think something is getting overlooked by a few folks that is important in Forge discussions in general. There…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Laurel.

1/18/2002 contracycle: Differing goals
[quote="Ron Edwards"] As another example (that is often missed), I am perfectly happy with the notion that primarily Simulationist play can <i>include</i> the concept of "story" as a context or…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: contracycle, Ron Edwards.

1/20/2002 Manu: Eventually Narrativist
Hello Forgers, I'm working on a home brew system, but I'm running into a weird obstacle: the game has to be initially Simulationist, but will gradually evolve into Narrativism. I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Joe Murphy (Broin), hardcoremoose.

1/20/2002 Manu: A GNS model of Fading Suns ?
Hey, I thought I should pick your brains before launching into it, so here it goes: What in your opinion would be a quick model/description of Fading Suns in terms…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Manu, Mike Holmes.

1/21/2002 Gordon C. Landis: "What's produced" vs. "In play"
Boy, I hope I'm not poking at a hornet's nest here - if that's the feeling anyone gets, ignore this post. Elsewhere, Ron posted this tidbit: A little note…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Logan, jburneko, J B Bell, contracycle.

1/21/2002 Stivven: Size limits for narrativist play
I was just wondering...what's the average group size is for primarily Narrativist play? I've been musing a little over immersion in LARPs and it struck me that I don't think…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Stivven, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Bankuei, Laurel.

1/28/2002 james_west: Ron's Essay
I've been busy - hadn't got around to reading Ron's essay before now. So, my take on it: First, it's marvelously well written - very rigorous. Even if you don't…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, Paul Czege.

1/31/2002 Fabrice G.: Scenario in a Narrativist game ?
Well hi every one, it's one of my first post so i want to tanks all of you for being very inspirational and every thing ...(well you'll only get this…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Fabrice G., Zak Arntson, Uncle Dark, contracycle, Ron Edwards, furashgf.

2/8/2002 lumpley: Drawing Conclusions in Public
In far distant Actual Play, Ron says So here I am, Narrativist player, "playing my character." Do I think, "What would he do?" Sure I do! In my case,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: lumpley, Ron Edwards, Marco, Jared A. Sorensen, Logan, contracycle, Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, A.Neill, Jack Spencer Jr, Mike Holmes, Blake Hutchins, Paul Czege, Emily Care, Le Joueur.

2/11/2002 Silent Tamatama: Abashed Vanilliaism
Seen two new terms (new for me anyway) called Vanilla Narrativism and Abashed Narrativism can anyone fill me in on what they are?
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Silent Tamatama, Paul Czege, J B Bell, Ron Edwards, Le Joueur, joe_llama, Knight.

2/14/2002 Steve Dustin: Narritivist vs. Simulationist:Situation
Let's see if I got this straight. Having read the essay various times and read these threads I'm understanding Narritivism and Simulationism for Situation as so: Narritivism: focus on story/theme…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Steve Dustin, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, contracycle, Mike Holmes, jburneko.

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