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In GNS Model Discussion

6/23/2001 Pyske: GNS analysis of RPG stigmas
This thread is inspired by the comments about the placement of "railroading" in the FAQ. In general, it is usually agreed that in a group activity, valuing one's own enjoyment…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Pyske, Knight, Mytholder, greyorm.

6/18/2001 Epoch: Style Mixing
Sorry, but a bit of opening preamble to get you to where I am, here. I'm a proponent of non-pure-style gaming -- I think that the best gaming experiences come…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, jburneko, Gordon C. Landis, greyorm, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

6/18/2001 Logan: Clarifying GNS for the re-write
I'm rather concerned that some primary aspects of the presentation have been misunderstood by many who have read it. Since I will be rewriting the doc on Jun 21, I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, james_west, Epoch, Gordon C. Landis, Supplanter, Paul Czege, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, Mike Holmes, JohnMorrow, Pyske, Clinton R. Nixon, Damocles, Forum Admin.

6/17/2001 Supplanter: Toward a Sense, If Not a Theory, of Simulationism
Taking off from some p-mail I got this morning... The question is how to characterize the goals of simulationist play and not just its taboos. Simulation is "Let's Pretend" in…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, greyorm, Epoch, james_west, Justin Bacon, JohnMorrow, Knight.

6/17/2001 Mytholder: More FAQ comments (long and bloody)
Ok...It's 2.18am as I begin this, I got four hours sleep last night and have spent half the day playing an l5r tournament and the rest of the time at…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Mytholder, Supplanter, Logan, Valamir, greyorm.

6/14/2001 Clinton R. Nixon: The FAQ is up
There'll be links on the front page and in the forum soon, but until then: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/faq/ Enjoy. And thank Logan and Ron--they've worked hard on this one.
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Clinton R. Nixon, Mytholder, Epoch, Blake Hutchins, Logan, Valamir, james_west, greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, Gordon C. Landis, joshua neff, Levekius, GreatWolf, Mike Holmes, Supplanter.

6/10/2001 Supplanter: Where Did Dramatism Go?
Awhile ago Ron made clear to me that "Narrativism is not Dramatism" - that is to say, it is distinct from the type of game Kim and Berkman called Dramatism…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Mytholder, jburneko, greyorm, Valamir, Logan, Ron Edwards.

6/10/2001 Torrent: 6 W's in Game Write up
I offer the following as an observation. Feel free to debate and tear it apart if need be. It came to me in the blank time driving back and forth…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Torrent.

6/7/2001 greyorm: Using the Threefold in Design
Well, the title more or less says it all. Basically, how do YOU use the Threefold in design? How does it help you design your game? How do you respond…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: greyorm, Ron Edwards, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Mytholder, Mike Holmes, Zak Arntson.

6/7/2001 Gordon C. Landis: G or N or S - caution, do not mix!
(Appologies if this turns out to be something we should just wait for the FAQ on . . .) Over in game design, Ron corrected a possible incorrect understanding of…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, jburneko, Dav, Mike Holmes, Logan, Ron Edwards, Justin Bacon, Mytholder.

6/5/2001 jburneko: Narativism: I still don't get it.
This is very frustrating for me. I'm not talking about theory here. I'm not asking what Narativism *IS* or anything like that. I'm talking about practical application. I'm talking about…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Dav, Ian O'Rourke, Ron Edwards, Christopher Kubasik, J B Bell, Mike Holmes.

6/1/2001 Gordon C. Landis: An understanding of GNS
OK, I want to run through what I've learned/decided as a result of some of the semi-recent discussion here and on GO, especially as regards Story and GNS, and add…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Supplanter, greyorm, Ron Edwards, Clinton R. Nixon, Logan.

5/31/2001 Dav: Concerning stances
Okay, after much debate and great discussion... well, some other guy beat everyone to the punch for setting out to the unwashed masses. http://ptgptb.humbug.org.au/0017/roles.html A good article, and worth reading.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Dav.

5/31/2001 Ron Edwards: State of the art
Hello everyone. These last few days on the Forge have been a big frustration for me. 1) Flaming, frankly. What's up with that (as my students would say)? That is…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards.

5/31/2001 james_west: FAQ
This forum clearly needs a FAQ. I suggest it contains: (1) A set of definitions (or paradigms, or whatever) of G/N/S (2) An explanation of what it is supposed to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: james_west, Logan, Ron Edwards, greyorm, Blake Hutchins, Valamir, Mike Holmes.

5/26/2001 Valamir: Gamism and Mechanics
Supplanter raised some very interesting issues on by simulationist thread, but since they were at best tangental to the thrust of that discussion I figured they could best be addressed…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Supplanter, GreatWolf.

5/26/2001 Valamir: Simulation and Subjectivity
Ok. This is a very Sorcerer specific message and so in that sense might more appropriately belong on the Sorcerer forum. But my intent here is not so much to…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Supplanter, greyorm, Clinton R. Nixon, Gordon C. Landis, Mike Holmes, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf, Paul Czege, james_west, Logan, Mytholder, joshua neff, Zak Arntson.

5/25/2001 Daredevil: Thoughts
Heya, What follows is just some thoughts I feel like voicing. They're not anything I feel too strongly about, but merely things that have occurred to me while pondering the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Daredevil, Ron Edwards, Zak Arntson.

5/24/2001 Zak Arntson: Simulate vs. Explore
Here is my take on Simulation vs. Exploration. Simulation holds the weight that "Sim" does as a prefix to video games. SimAnt, for example, handles anthills _NOT_ realistically, but with…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Zak Arntson, Jared A. Sorensen, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, greyorm.

5/24/2001 GreatWolf: Posts in Critical Hit
Scarlet Jester has posted two threads on Gamist and Explorative play in the Critical Hit forum on Gaming Outpost. Personally I found them helpful and thought-provoking, and I was curious…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GreatWolf, Jared A. Sorensen, Valamir.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

6/28/2001 Valamir: a Radical Notion
I know I'm not the first to come up with this idea, but let me be the first to start a thread on it. GNS: Chuck it. Chuck the whole…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, Paul Czege, Supplanter, Logan, Mytholder, Le Joueur, greyorm, JohnMorrow.

7/2/2001 Valamir: Simulation: the problem is with the word
Well, I just found a few really meaty and useful threads over in Actual Play. I still wonder how many more meaty threads we'd have if everyone wasn't so obsessed…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Gordon C. Landis, JohnMorrow, Logan, Paul Czege, Dav, Mytholder, Supplanter.

7/3/2001 Logan: At the Center of the Triangle
In the Clarifying GNS thread, Pyske (aka Eric) made some good comments about the faq. One particular point got lost in the shuffle. I'll quote him here. System does…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan, Ron Edwards, jburneko, Le Joueur, Mytholder, Damocles.

7/4/2001 Gordon C. Landis: Simulation: another word
OK, I haven't sold myself on this, but if we must have another word for Simulation (I'm also not sold either way on that), I offer . . . Situation.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Gordon C. Landis, Dav.

7/5/2001 John Wick: G/N/S = 101
The title of this forum "G/N/S: Game Theory 101" is a little... well, let me start again. I really don't have any problem with it, the whole GNS thing. The…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, james_west, Gordon C. Landis, Mytholder, Ferry Bazelmans, Jack Spencer Jr.

7/5/2001 John Wick: My own GNS problems
I think my chief problem with GNS has something to do with apples and oranges. First, let me make sure I've got my definitions in order. Gamism is about competition…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: John Wick, james_west, Logan, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Mytholder, JohnMorrow, Knight, Jared A. Sorensen, Jack Spencer Jr, Clinton R. Nixon.

7/11/2001 Logan: GNS Doc Update
I e-mailed my draft of the updated faq to Ron. That means, hopefully, we get the update posted soon. Didn't expect to make quite so many changes. I think the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Logan.

7/12/2001 jburneko: Another GNS Permutation
This is in all likelyhood just another permutation of GNS and doesn't add THAT much to the ideas already out there but I thought I would throw it on the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko.

7/17/2001 Valamir: Narrativism: What's beyond the sillyness
I've been poking around and adding to my collection of games owned and played those purported to be narrativist, and noticed a reoccuring theme...narrativist games seem to have a tendency…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, jburneko, John Wick, joshua neff, Mytholder, gentrification, Jared A. Sorensen, GreatWolf.

7/23/2001 Epoch: "Sophisticated" Styles
A while ago, I suggested that I'd try to characterize my own playing style in terms of the GNS. I don't know if there's interest, but, with Le Jouer (apologies,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Epoch, Ron Edwards, James Holloway, Mytholder.

7/24/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Guess who's finally read the FAQ
I'll probably have to read it a few times before I post anything actually worthwhile, but anyway.... Part of the problems I've always had with any of the three-fold models…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Le Joueur, Ron Edwards, Epoch, Supplanter, GreatWolf, Valamir, Logan.

7/25/2001 tldenmark: GNS a sign of sophistication and maturity...
Eventually any new human endeavour that becomes established starts to spawn it's "philosophers". These people come in and try to explain things and put things in a box, and most…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: tldenmark, contracycle, Gordon C. Landis, Ron Edwards, Knight, Mike Holmes, A.Neill, greyorm, TrizzlWizzl, Jared A. Sorensen, Laurel.

7/28/2001 Levekius: The test...
I took M.J Young's test about 15 minutes ago. I know, I know. This test has been out there for a long time, but somehow I never had the time…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Levekius, Ron Edwards.

7/29/2001 Supplanter: The World and Other Stories
One of the basic distinctions in RPG theories is between world-oriented and story-oriented games. We come up with a set of design principles, decision modes and play procedures to support…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, Ron Edwards.

7/29/2001 Supplanter: Sources of Narrativism
Most narrativist games seem to draw their structural principles from movies and TV. The two most worked out theories of narrativist gaming, Berkman's and Edwards', specifically reference screenplay writing manuals.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Supplanter, joshua neff, Ron Edwards, Paul Czege, Jack Spencer Jr, Knight, hardcoremoose.

7/30/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Set-up time
OK, trying to look at things from another angle. Taken to the extreme, in at least one direction anyway, gamist can require a lot of set-up time. Games such as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, Ian O'Rourke.

7/31/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Hooking the players across the model
In the Set up time thread on this forum I've mentioned a judgement issue I've been having, for many reasons. Here's a major one. There have been techniques to hook…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, joshua neff.

7/31/2001 Uncle Dark: Defining Simulatonism
I was thinking while grocery shopping this morning... A working definition for simulationism as I understand it might be written like this: A simulationist wants a game where: a) Everything…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Uncle Dark, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

8/1/2001 Jack Spencer Jr: Gamist examples and redefinition
OK, Ron says Gamist is the least understood branch of the GNS model, an odd comment since it's the branch most people seem to think they understand completely. This probably…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jack Spencer Jr, Logan, jburneko, Valamir, Supplanter, Gordon C. Landis, Clinton R. Nixon, joshua neff.

8/6/2001 jburneko: More Questions For Narrativists
Hello Again, As I go around sharing the results of my research into Narrativism I find that I get two replies pretty universally and I was wondering what the Narrativists…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jburneko, Jack Spencer Jr, Uncle Dark, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins.

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