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In GNS Model Discussion

10/29/2002 GB Steve: Something for the Narrative pot
I've been reading the excellent Cambridge Intorduction to Narrative by H. Porter Abbott. It's pretty much an undergraduate text on the subject and covers most of the main points whilst…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: GB Steve, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Gordon C. Landis, MK Snyder, Jack Spencer Jr, Don Lag.

10/28/2002 jrients: Champs 3 vs Champs 4
From Ron's "GNS and other matters" article Champions, through its 3rd edition, exemplified a mix of Gamist and Narrativist & "driftable" design, but with its 4th edition in the very…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jrients, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Christoffer Lernö.

10/24/2002 Christoffer Lernö: GAH I'm tired of being forbidden to use "Story"
I know I know, it's not well defined. But then please please give me a word to describe the history of the in-play events during a session of play -…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Christoffer Lernö, Marco, Le Joueur, Matt, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang.

10/23/2002 Paganini: Multiple Premise?
I've been discussing narrativism with Mike in the Synthesis playtest. That thread is only indirectly related to this, but that discussion helped me to identify something that's been vaguely bugging…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paganini, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes.

10/18/2002 Kester Pelagius: The GNS Theory: Draft Cyclopedia Entry
What follows below is intended as a cyclopedic reference entry on the subject of The GNS Theory. Alas there are no quick and easy definitions for this topic, though suggestions…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Kester Pelagius, Marco, Ron Edwards.

10/4/2002 JMendes: A new look at GNS and a new axis of analysis
Hello, all, :) A (long) time ago, I came across a wee bit of text that divided role-play gamers into three groups (sound familiar?). These groups were: the adventurers; the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: JMendes, greyorm, Wart, Ron Edwards, jdagna, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur.

9/27/2002 Jake Norwood: Setting the Mood
In our discussion of FVLMINATA in actual play wyrdling identified the use of Tali dice and Latin names for game elements as sample reasons that led him to believe that…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jake Norwood, deadpanbob, Ron Edwards, wyrdlyng, contracycle.

9/25/2002 deadpanbob: GNS Behavior Mapping (Covering old ground, I'm Sure)
In the thread about GNS Intent and Motive we have a discussion going on between essentially 3 camps: I actually see three sides to this debate. The…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Mike Holmes, Seth L. Blumberg, Paul Czege, MK Snyder.

9/23/2002 Valamir: GNS, Intent and Motivations
From the Ying in the Yang? thread. Hi there, No one seems to be understanding my point: that "intent" as you see it is perfectly all right for you…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Valamir, Ron Edwards, deadpanbob, jdagna, Mike Holmes, Marco, M. J. Young, contracycle, damion, Seth L. Blumberg, C. Edwards, Wart.

9/20/2002 deadpanbob: Objective G/N/S and System Mechanic evaluation...
All, Ace posted an interesting question in this thread. Marco made an interesting reply within that thread: To put it another way: the theory that you might have a…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Andrew Martin, ThreeGee, damion, Marco, contracycle.

9/12/2002 giblin: Ying in the Yang?
I have been reading the GNS types and was wondering about the following question that hit me; If Narativist gamming gave you bonuses to do something based on the flashy…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: giblin, Tim C Koppang, Ron Edwards, greyorm, Alan, jdagna, deadpanbob, Mike Holmes, Valamir, John Wick.

9/11/2002 Matt Wilson: sanity check on G vs. S
Some days I feel slow... check my math here, someone? Shadowrun supports gamist play because it's mostly about "missions," where the players go nuts with tactics of all sorts and…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Matt Wilson, Ron Edwards, KAR 120 C, Wart.

9/10/2002 Walt Freitag: Same game, different players, different rules?
On this thread, Ron wrote: I suggest that when a GNS-diverse group does work well together, that there may well be compensating mechanisms going on, whether at the whole-social-group level,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, deadpanbob, Jeremy Cole, lumpley, damion, Jeffrey Miller, Emily Care, Le Joueur.

9/10/2002 deadpanbob: Competitive, Cooperative and Collaborative fit with G/N/S...
A person who I used to game with came up with the following framework that maybe fits within G/N/S... There are three types of games - in terms of actual…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

9/10/2002 deadpanbob: Can a game designer work for all three (G/N/S)?
I'm new to this forum. New to game design. Been playing RPG's for longer than I'd care to admit - well, okay, since Chainmail. First off, Ron's GNS essay was…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: deadpanbob, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young, Clinton R. Nixon, Jeremy Cole.

9/9/2002 Lee Short: Question: Exploration of System
What precisely is meant by "Exploration of System?" I see at least two possibilities: (1) given that reality is defined by the game system, what does this imply about how…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Lee Short, jburneko, Ron Edwards, Garbanzo.

9/5/2002 jdagna: Incoherency and Sales
The GNS article pretty well avoids addressing how game sales relate to their GNS focus (or lack thereof). It seems to me that many of the most successful products have…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: jdagna, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Valamir, Le Joueur, damion, contracycle, M. J. Young, Christopher Kubasik, Jeremy Cole.

9/5/2002 Paka: Relinquishing Control in Dust Devils
I have got to admit that the mechanic in Dust Devils in which the player takes over narrative control of a scene until conflict is resolved troubles me. The game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paka, Mike Holmes, Valamir, jburneko, Matt Snyder.

9/5/2002 Jeremy Cole: is it the slice of the pie, or the size of the piece
It seems to me that some systems better meet gamism, simulationism and narratavism goals than other systems. While in game design you must have a focus, and must to some…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jeremy Cole, Mike Holmes, Valamir, Ron Edwards, damion, Walt Freitag, Le Joueur, M. J. Young.

8/25/2002 kaworuiskool: Question about GNS in computer games
Long time lurker, first time poster.... The other day I was introducing gns to my best buddy, who learns better by example than by reading essays. I decided to use…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: kaworuiskool, Ron Edwards, Blake Hutchins, Walt Freitag, Mike Holmes, contracycle, Valamir, M. J. Young.

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Subsequent Topics
In GNS Model Discussion

10/31/2002 Cassidy: FitM extremes
I'm a newbie to this forum and have been interested in Narrativist styles of play for quite some time ever since I stumbed on "the Window RPG" one dark night.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cassidy, Bankuei, Shreyas Sampat, Mike Holmes, Paganini, Andrew Martin, Ron Edwards, M. J. Young.

11/1/2002 b_bankhead: On loosing faith in simulation
When I started out in rpgs so many years ago I was a died in the wool simulationist. When my friends decided to write our own rpg we actually did…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: b_bankhead, Jeremy Cole, JMendes, Ron Edwards, Andrew Martin, Peter Nordstrand, M. J. Young, contracycle, Le Joueur, Marco, Mike Holmes, RobMuadib, MK Snyder, Alan, Valamir.

11/1/2002 JMendes: GNS and player rewards
Hi, all, :) Appols if this has been asked and answered (in which case check out this thread replies are appreciated). Anyway, how does one reward players in the various…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: JMendes, M. J. Young, Cassidy, MK Snyder.

11/1/2002 Peregrine: The GNS Paradigm - a polite refute
Hi all This may be a very bad idea, and I've been warned off by others who've done similar, but: I have significant issues with the GNS paradigm. Let me…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Peregrine, Christoffer Lernö, Matt, Valamir, Le Joueur, Mike Holmes, Bankuei, damion, Ron Edwards, Kester Pelagius, greyorm, Jack Spencer Jr.

11/3/2002 Cassidy: Actor and Author Stance
[b]Taken from chapter 3 of GNS Theory[/b] [quote]In Actor stance, a person determines a character’s decisions and actions using only knowledge and perceptions that the character would have. In Author…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cassidy, Alan, Valamir, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, joe_llama, Andrew Martin, Le Joueur, M. J. Young.

11/4/2002 MK Snyder: GNS and its origins from the Threefold Model
As a newbie, I found this discussion of The Threefold Theory very useful, especially with regard tot he symmetry problem. Am I correct in assuming that the GNS model derives…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, M. J. Young, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

11/5/2002 Jake Norwood: Getting in touch with our inner gamist
Okay, gamism--probably due to the preferences of many Forgites--has the least positive rap around here. But, let's face it...we all have an inner gamist...something within us that wants to win.…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jake Norwood, Alan, Matt, Marco, Valamir, RobMuadib, Seth L. Blumberg, Le Joueur, Bankuei, Ron Edwards, Tim C Koppang, Clinton R. Nixon, Andrew Martin, MK Snyder, Rich Forest, C. Edwards.

11/5/2002 Sylus Thane: Can a game have all 3 G/N/S Revisited
I was tooling around and came upon this thread and kinda noticed that the original question had kinda derailed. So here it is again and my take on it. Can…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Sylus Thane, Ron Edwards, Gordon C. Landis, talysman, Cassidy, Mike Holmes.

11/5/2002 MK Snyder: Problems with term "premise"
I am continuing the discussion started in this thread First off, I'm going to say that I do not care for the use of the term "premise" as…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Ron Edwards, Valamir.

11/6/2002 JMendes: Is S out of balance with G/N?
Hey, :) In my previous thread about rewards, I asked how to reward players in different GNS flavors. Also, in this thread about actor and author stance, Cassidy had some…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: JMendes, Ron Edwards, Mike Holmes, Jared A. Sorensen, MK Snyder, RobMuadib, Emily Care, contracycle, M. J. Young, talysman.

11/7/2002 Paka: Death & GNS
okay, one moment, let me get this straight in my head: In Gamist terms the game is about winning and death would probably mean losing. In Simulationist terms the game…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Paka, Tim Denee, Valamir, Ron Edwards.

11/8/2002 Tony Irwin: Narrativist vs Director Stance
Hey folks, have I got this right? That you can have a narrativist game where the players have no director stance at all? I suppose that the premise would automatically…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Tony Irwin, Ron Edwards, Paganini.

11/8/2002 Ron Edwards: About terminology
Hello, This post is directed mainly to Ralph and to MK Snyder, who have recently voiced an uncompromising criticism over the terms I've adopted or introduced. The argument, if I…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Paganini, Alan, Le Joueur, Valamir, J B Bell, Gordon C. Landis, Christoffer Lernö, Kester Pelagius, Mike Holmes, MK Snyder, M. J. Young, greyorm, contracycle, Irmo, JMendes, Cassidy, Jonathan Walton.

11/7/2002 Ron Edwards: Humor and GNS
Hi MK, I think introducing the issue of humor is causing problems of its own. I have experienced funny stuff in all three modes of play without stretching or adding…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Ron Edwards, Seth L. Blumberg, Mike Holmes, contracycle, MK Snyder, Walt Freitag, talysman, greyorm, M. J. Young.

11/8/2002 MK Snyder: GNS and Threefold comparison (specific)
How does the GNS model differ from this application of the Threefold model? It appears to me to be identical: *Applies to play process, not game and not gamer *Applies…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Mike Holmes, Le Joueur, greyorm, talysman, Ron Edwards.

11/9/2002 Kester Pelagius: Role-Playing and the GNS Theory (raw article, lengthy)
[color=blue]Copyright © 2002 C. Demetrius Morgan[/color] [color=darkblue]What follows below is intended as a encyclopedic reference entry on the subject of "Role-Playing and the GNS Theory". Alas, as there are no…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Kester Pelagius, MK Snyder, Mike Holmes, Ron Edwards, Seth L. Blumberg, Walt Freitag.

11/9/2002 Jonathan Walton: The Case for 4 Stances
Take a look at this: http://www.100flowers.indie-rpgs.com/stance-chart.jpg Key to Chart: (Terms in Parens) = essential, understood limits = arbitrary limits that can be changed player = every…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Jonathan Walton, MK Snyder, Mike Holmes, Tim C Koppang, Le Joueur, Kester Pelagius, talysman, Ron Edwards, lumpley, Walt Freitag, M. J. Young, JMendes, Jared A. Sorensen.

11/9/2002 Cassidy: Developed Premise and Exploration
[quote="Ron Edwards, from GNS Chapter 5, ROLE-PLAYING DESIGN AND COHERENCE"]Facilitating a metagame concern (a developed Premise) differs greatly from Exploring a listed element as a priority. To address a Premise,…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: Cassidy, Ron Edwards, MK Snyder, Paganini.

11/10/2002 RobMuadib: Are The Sub-Priorities of Simulationism Incompatible?
Hi all I was reading the Is S out of balance with G/N thread started by J Mendes and it gave rise to a thought, specifically with regards to the…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: RobMuadib, Ron Edwards.

11/12/2002 MK Snyder: Examples of GNS in application w/respect to play
As this is a forum for game designers, there are many threads applying GNS to game design. I think it's not unreasonable to note that this creates some confusion, because…
In GNS Model Discussion
Participants: MK Snyder, Ron Edwards, Bob McNamee, Mike Holmes, M. J. Young.

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